an internet troll Blog [SPLIT]

[Super Star Kirby]

Eh, I like seeing responses from us that tear them apart. Which reminds me, nice job, Outlaw.

[Justin_Bailey]

Those who remember my posts discussing the merits of Metroid Prime vs. Super Metroid know I have a penchant for writing giant exhausting walls of text when a topic irks me. Thankfully I stepped into this topic late and thus will steer clear of excessive vitriol. However, having just read an internet troll's first post I'd like to say that, his profusely absurd comments deriding Super's story (which I actually feel is one of the best gaming stories ever) notwithstanding and describing Prime as Super in 3D, I agree with his general sentiment. Video game stories are, for the most part, silly, ill-conceived, poorly executed, badly written, badly implemented, and often unnecessary. As an internet troll points out, the childish stories in games are certainly a cause for derision from people unfamiliar with the medium, but they should be a cause for derision from those within.

I LOVE the original Metroid trilogy, and that includes its approach to story. Within three games that essentially have only minimal narration and only brief opening and ending cinematics it manages to establish its namesake as terrifying creatures (and believe me, they terrified children), its protagonists as truly evil villians, its protagonist as mysterious but ultimately heroic, and hinted at a deeper universe filled with a long-lost race and culture that still played a role in what happened. an internet troll is right in that these things engaged your imagination, but they also told a story coherently in and of themselves. There was no need to force feed it to the player and doing so would probably have detracted from the games.

Now, I am certainly in the wait-and-see camp, far more on the side excited to see Sakamoto's return to Metroid on a home console than on the side tentatively worried, but I'm more excited for the gameplay than the story. The story's instead something that has me curious, but I don't expect it to be the game's biggest strength, particularly since it promises to interrupt gameplay intermittently.

Edit: Any fans of the sublime indie game Braid might be interested in hearing its creator's thoughts on how stories actually sabotage immersion in games. I think he's right, and I think gaming would do well to evolve beyond its Hollywood envy and embrace a vision of gaming that emphasizes its strengths in creating interactive experiences and worlds rather than its narrative deficiencies.

Welcome back.

[Outlaw]

I am posting from my iPod touch at school. The teacher with the only wireless acess happens to be absent so here I am. Now here is how I see it... We can keep this up and he can lose all the professionalism he has left. (If any at all.) The more he responds and the more his fans do the worse they look at critics. We don't have to be professional because we are fanboys. Amiright? I enjoy this, I crave this type of confrontation. Gentlemen, I love to Brawl.

[Justin_Bailey]

I enjoy this, I crave this top of confrontation. Gentlemen, I love to Brawl.

Hellz yeah.

I aim to misbehave.

[mental]

Edit: Any fans of the sublime indie game Braid might be interested in hearing its creator's thoughts on how stories actually sabotage immersion in games. I think he's right, and I think gaming would do well to evolve beyond its Hollywood envy and embrace a vision of gaming that emphasizes its strengths in creating interactive experiences and worlds rather than its narrative deficiencies.

Hmm. In many respects I think he's correct, but it kinda feels like he goes off the rails towards the end.

I'm really tempted to blog about this, though given I haven't really been involved in the game industry for the better part of a decade (unless you count as a player, or my current gig doing a soundtrack for an indie game) I'm not sure how much weight my opinions really hold.

[Infinity's End]

I think we should stop giving Li'l Seany Baby any attention. You guys are making it look like we actually give a damn about his opinions. He's just another one of these know-it-all small name - big ego bloggers who are extremely bad at admitting when they haven't done their research. As far as I know, he hasn't done anything to deserve this kind of attention. Let's not give him any.

QFE, and made larger so people READ IT. I can't believe he's still going on about this. Man, can you please take out whatever's shooting up your ass?

I'm sincerely debating whether or not to lock this topic just so people won't continue to ramble on about how much of a prick he is.


another QFE:

One question you won't hear from Sean is "What if I'm a douche? What if I'm a moron? What if my blog is founded not on expertise in gaming, game design, and sound reasoning, but in fact, just my whiny opinions?"

These questions aren't even considered.
Troll harder Sean.

[Justin_Bailey]

QFE means...?

I was born before the internet was invented, so you'll have to forgive me.

[Triforce of the Gods]

Seeing as QFT means quoted for truth, I'm assuming it means something like quoted for emphasis?

[Outlaw]

I agree, however.. I don't know why but as long as he and his boys retaliate, so will I. I don't know why, I have always been that way. I don't stop unless they do, or I am forced to by the locking of this topic. But I have a feeling it is all over. You can just lock it if you want, I won't mind.

[Abodos]

Yeah, I don't see how much more we can rant about an internet troll. I never realized that people would respond so vehemently when I posted that first link. I guess he's just the kind of person who provokes that kind of reaction. At least everyone here now has a better idea of how stupid an internet troll is.

Go ahead and let an internet troll rant. He pretty much discredits himself with all these sorts of blog posts.

[Spaceman]

I actually saw the whole "an internet troll vs. MDb" feud mentioned on another gaming forum which I won't mention. Many of the posters there took an internet troll's side and basically agreed with his assessment of the MDb community as a bunch of mindless fanboy sheeple. Fittingly enough, said thread was replete with lots of reactionary bashing of Other M and whining about how Sakamoto has completely lost it and is going to ruin the entire series( )

It's bad enough to see such unfounded hatred and ignorant accusations aimed at an unreleased video game, but it's even worse when the loyal fans themselves get attacked simply for defending a series which they are passionate and enthusiastic about.

IMHO it would be wise to lock the thread and let this whole incident slide into well-deserved obscurity. an internet troll already got the attention he wanted. We all think he's a moron who can't make any proper arguments for his beliefs, and we (most of us, anyway) trust Sakamoto to deliver an authentic Metroid experience that will wow skeptics and bashers even with the increased focus in narrative. I doubt any of that is going to change by letting this thread continue. But again, that's just IMO.

[Yoshi 3000]

We all think he's a moron who can't make any proper arguments for his beliefs, and we (most of us, anyway) trust Sakamoto to deliver an authentic Metroid experience that will wow skeptics and bashers even with the increased focus in narrative. I doubt any of that is going to change by letting this thread continue. But again, that's just IMO.

There'll always be haters, and trust me, even if Sakamoto manages to make a really good and enjoyable game, doesn't mean the haters (including an internet troll) is going to change their minds about it.
I mean they might, but a lot of them are probably not going to admit that they were wrong and stupid, judging too early.
People do that with Prime still. I've seen lots of user reviews on different sites where it's gotten ridiculously low ratings.
Before it was released, everyone thought it'd be worthless, and I'm sure there were people like an internet troll going on about that like he does now.

Do you think those people changed their minds when they finally played the game? Well, maybe. Or maybe not.
Do you think that even if they did, would accept being wrong for such a long time?
No... I doubt it.

There's no way of telling until the game is out anyway.

[Infinity's End]

I assume you're referring to this thread? Google is my friend.

From what I skimmed through, it seems like the more intelligent members of that forum are wise enough to see through Sean's misinformed nature and inaccuracy. The ones who do agree with him seem quite immature in their writing. What's worse is that he's just adding fuel to the fire for those who all of a sudden "hate Other M" (which, for the millionth time, makes absolutely NO sense).

I think people just want something to bitch about. At all times. And Other M has been the likely candidate.

I personally find this whole situation extremely hilarious. Like, I had no idea it would explode this much. And it might get us some much-needed advertising, too! There's no such thing as bad press...

I'm still not locking this thread because there have been no flamewars and no inappropriate posts. I respect the topic enough to just let it die off naturally.

[Quadraxis]

I assume you're referring to this thread? Google is my friend.

Does anyone remember that purple monstrosity in the Other M trailer? The one Samus shot in the eye? That was an internet troll.

I'd be bitter too.

It all makes sense now.

[sharonlover]

1. If you consider Metroid to have a ‘great story’, then why not other games that were out at the time? Why doesn’t…say… Contra have a ‘great story’? It certainly has a more interesting intro:

If you read any of the other threads on the board say under, general video game discussion, you would see we do talk about other games and discuss them.

2. You cannot say the gameplay looks fine. We haven’t been shown any gameplay yet. Not trying to rain on your hype, but I do not think it is a good idea to get hyped up on a title before it has shown any gameplay.

This is an argument we've been having in a million and one threads on that forum. If you read the Metroid: Other M threads, you'll see a constant back in forth with those freaking out and those telling people to chill because we haven't even seen the game yet.

3. Why is cinematics so good for Metroid? I do not understand.

Cinematics can move the story along? Not everyone is against the idea that Samus' character needs to be developed. That's the way video games are going, it's the new way of telling a story versus a movie. I've been playing games since the introduction of the NES and I can accept the change; however, it doesn't appear that you can.

4. Manga does repel many people. The success of Metroid was never due to any manga.

I must have missed that part where manga was part of its success. The manga gave us a story to Samus’ life before the Metroid games and going into them.

“I am detecting a high degree of ‘Game God’ worship. As for me, I slay Game Gods because they are more trouble than they are worth. The notion of ‘Game Gods’ I have found to be very destructive to gaming. It allows a developer to make games for himself (instead of for customers) and makes young people want to join the ‘Game Industry’ so they, too, can become a ‘Game God’ (and ignore customers).

Sakamoto is no Game God. Neither is Shigeru Miyamoto. The only ‘Game God’ is the customer.”

I’m sorry but when you help to develop blockbuster games like Miyamoto, Sakamoto, and Itigaki (DoA series), I think you have the right to indulge in seeing some of those dreams come to life, regardless of whether or not it’s something the fans want. The same thing happens in the movie industry and the music industry. If it turns into a flop, guess what, they either go back or they continue to fail and end up getting pushed out of the industry. It’s how the industry renews itself.

“With Metroid, people who played the original NES game when it was new (and knew what the heck they were doing) have to be over thirty years old now. You do not hear from this group online much because they are too busy with real life. I am one of these people.”

Again, I grew up with Metroid from the beginning. I’m not over 30. Our forum is full of members who grew up in the golden age. While we are busy in real life, we make time to give our input on the changes being made to Metroid or other series we enjoy or no longer do.

“I can just picture an old school gamer walking into a game store and see “Metroid: Other M” on display. So he goes, “Hey, I like Metroid, and I need a new game after buying a Wii for Mario 5.” So he takes Other M home with him expecting a traditional Metroid experience. I would love to be in the same room to see his reaction! What would he think when exploring Samus’s womanly issues? What about when exploring Samus’s relationship with Adam? I’m not bashing Other M, I just find that scenario funny.”

I play every game with an open mind for the first time. The only impact a previous game has on whether or not I pick it up is if it’s previous game was any good. The fact that they may build on the relation that Samus had with Adam…so what? If it’s part of the game and the story is good, I see no problem with it…I’m a guy

“The game has aged incredibly well. But anyone saying Super Metroid has a ‘great story’ must think comic books are ‘great stories’ as well. There is no real story at all in the game.”

I think you misunderstand or the poster wasn’t clear. Super Metroid by itself is a game. It has a story, not a deep story but still a story. The story is much clearer and more indepth when you add in Metroid and Metroid II. It’s a chronological time line and it’s between those stories that a real story develops. This has continued through to Fusion and will do so into M:OM. The Prime series has its own arc and it was told well in my opinion.

“Super Metroid has become more popular today than it ever was when it was released. However, the game is probably overrated especially in discussions online.”

You are on a Metroid fan forum. The game is great. In it’s time, it provided a story, great musical score, great environment, and an open exploration of a huge world. It provided the basis for speed runs and sequence breaking. Super Metroid gave a lot to the SNES generation and those have stuck over the years and have been the ideas /elements some games have been based around.

“Sakamoto said that he thought he illustrated Samus’s ‘maternal feelings’ with the Metroid, and I am laughing at Sakamoto.

I also consider his interest in a digital video game character’s feelings to be… honestly, a little creepy.”

Why is it wrong to want to tell a story? Why is wrong to want to develop a character. Adding in those maternal feelings could very well have pulled any many girl gamers who wanted to connect with an otherwise emotional character. Most guys love that hard ass alien busting macho-ness, while others enjoy thinking that there is more than an emotionless bitch behind the suit.

“And I didn’t write the narrative post because of Other M. But I do wonder why there is a trend for game developers to want to make computer animated movies instead of video games.”

I hate to break it to you, but that is where the video game industry is taking games. It’s the new way to tell a story.

“The player does not realize the Metroid had been altered through radiation or anything else. It is just a bigger sprite.

And Sakamoto did screw up. Where did all the other Metroids in Super Metroid come from? Super Metroid starts off saying the baby Metroid was the last Metroid in the galaxy. And the only way for there to be more Metroids is if there was a queen or something else. It wasn’t explained. And it is a giant plot hole. Someone should ask Sakamoto where all the other Metroids came from and why it wasn’t explained.”

I’m going to quote a member of the forum since he has a really good point.

_____________________

Firstly, we do not know how the hatchling became that big. It is never told. Sakomoto did not screw up with the 'clone' Metroids though. If you knew anything about Metroids, you would know that Metroids multiply when exposed to beta rays. The space pirates could simply expose the last Metroid to beta rays and poof, you got more. The NES manual explained that. In Metroid II, the natural life cycle of the Metroid is shown, no radiation required. In Metroid Prime series, the Metroids are exposed to Phazon radiation causing the different mutations. So why does Sakamoto have to explain something that is explained in the games or the manual?

“Because clearly games like Final Fantasy IV or Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger just can’t compare to that scene. Oh no, not at all!”

This goes back to me saying again, we have a forum dedicated to other video game discussions, maybe you should check it out because we do applaud many games for their story telling and achievements.

“You’re making up stuff that was never in the game. The game never said or showed that the baby Metroid was experimented on or that the other Metroids were clones. If the other Metroids are clones, why aren’t they all big Metroids? You cannot insert things into the game that exist purely in your imagination (unless you agree with me that games and narratives do not co-exist). Good job, anonymous forum dweller.

As for Metroid Prime, it was clearly a spin-off and wasn’t trying to fit into any ’storyline’. It was just trying to be a good game… and it was.”

Sakamoto explained at one point that the Metroid Prime series was an arc inside of the original story line. It’s set between Metroid and Metroid II. The baby Metroid was in a scientific lab at the beginning of Super Metroid. Researching the baby Metroid would involve experiments…or does science no longer do that? And it’s explained in Fusion that the GF were cloning metroids and that cloning place is found in game. It’s explained in the Metroid (NES) manual that the metroids would be multiplied

----------------NES Metroid Manual----------------------
“Meanwhile, in a room hidden deep within the center of the fortress, the preparations for multiplying the Metroid are progressing steadily.”

-----------------

A lesson on cloning: The term clone is derived from κλών, the Greek word for "trunk, branch", referring to the process whereby a new plant can be created from a twig.

Now tell me if I’m wrong, but planting a potato eye from a potatoe doesn’t make that plant just as big or even identical. It has to grow into its size under the right conditions. The baby Metroid had been alive much longer then the clones in Touran.

“But I don’t even think they are Metroid fans. They are Sakamoto fans first, Metroid fans second. They are literally worshiping a ‘Game God’. When Sakamoto says something, they rewrite their opinions to match his. “Yes, Sakamoto! We felt Samus’s maternal feelings in Super Metroid too!”

One thing from that thread you will not hear is this: what if an internet troll is right? What if Metroid is not about Samus Aran? What if Metroid is about something else… such as zapping Metroids? This question isn’t even considered. I laughed at their ‘Game God’, so I committed blasphemy, therefore I must be tossed into the volcano.”

Sorry but I’m a Metroid fan first. I don’t rewrite my opinions, I use facts from the games to hold my arguments. Like fans indicated in their forum, they felt that connection between the Metroid and Samus before Sakamoto ever said anything about it. It’s all portrayed in the beginning and the ending battle with Mother Brain, it was obvious.

I don’t see how Metroid is not about Samus. The Metroid and MII may have been ‘zappers’ but where in any of the follow up games does the story not revolve around Samus. She is the protagonist of the series. When they make a game not revolving around a story about Samus Aran and just have Metroids, then you can say that game is not about Samus but so far, they all tell her story. Why else would they provide so much background, a manga about her past, and include her relationships (assumption) with Adam in M:OM?