Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

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Xerkxes

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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Xerkxes » 01.04.14 6:05pm

The two weirdest things about Other M compared to the other games is that 1) The Charge Beam and Super Missiles cause Samus to have massive amounts of recoil, when that has never happened before. 2) The Screw Attack/Space Jump Combo was nerfed so you can gain height and the Screw Attack doesn't one hit kill regular moocks. I accept this easily in Smash cause it's a fighting game, balance and stuff. Other M is the only game to nerf Samus' abilities(besides Hunters) as whole, and these two changes make no sense. The Speed Booster is all around amazing in 3D. Using a "Shine Jump" instead of the Zero Mission Shine Spark is a bit disappointing, but Samus is a small areas, so the Shine Jump works better for the game, so there's no problem. The Screw Attack/Space Jump nerf puts a bad taste in my mouth when I want to play a different kind of Metroid after playing my Prime Trilogy for a while(you play anything for a while, you're gonna want a change of pace).

I don't see it as a nerfing, there's balance too it since the weapons were "upgraded" this time around too.

To be fair, the Charge shot's never been bigger, 'cept maybe for Prime 3 fully upgraded. and in the Cinematics for Other M vs the Mech, the charge shot deflects a thrown metal container the seen on trains, it's been given a ton a of kinetic energy this time round. cue in Diffusion beam and it's got an insane blast radius, not to mention increased muzzle velocity as the upgrades start stacking on to both normal and charnge, not to mention the FASTEST charge period of any metroid game when fully upgraded.

Super missiles now have the biggest radius they've ever had, and it's been combined with an improved seeker missile, automatically targeting up too 5 targets instantly while launching a super missile at the primary target.

Then Power bombs... they kill every spawned enemy in the room regardless of distance, detonate near instantly (even though there's a charge period).


screw attack and space jump are the only ones to get a direct nerf, but it's still not as bad as Prime, the screw attack is stronger in prime (it deals damage based on exposure, it's not an instant kill, just usually is), but the space jump is vastly improved, otherwise in Other M it'll kill -MOST- mooks, just not all.

not to mention infinite ammo on all weapons now.

Though, the recoil thing is probably to give a sense of empowerment as a visual aspect, and it seemed very much so that Ninja team tried their hardest to make Samus indeed seem very powerful, too bad they couldn't maintain her intimidating posture(s) from previous games though.

for the shine jump though.. same reason they nerfed space jump. They were too lazy to build the game around the abilities, and nerfed the abilities to make world development easier.
Now I say lazy, there could have been constraint reason, most prominently time, but still.
Xerkxes: "Makes you wonder why Samus just didn't take one of the Crystals with her, and constantly charge it with the light beam while using it as a God damned +5 Brilliant Energy Spear of Smite-Ing "

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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Chozo Guardian » 01.04.14 7:36pm

The Super Missile has recoil but not the Charge Beam.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Xerkxes » 01.04.14 10:39pm

The Super Missile has recoil but not the Charge Beam.
It does, just the Super missile has enough to actually push Samus back, charge shot has enough recoil that it forces Samus to a near stop if fired when moving.

technically even the standard uncharged shot even has recoil, in the Primes too.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby TheAccursedHunter01 » 01.07.14 9:00pm

The two weirdest things about Other M compared to the other games is that 1) The Charge Beam and Super Missiles cause Samus to have massive amounts of recoil, when that has never happened before. 2) The Screw Attack/Space Jump Combo was nerfed so you can gain height and the Screw Attack doesn't one hit kill regular moocks. I accept this easily in Smash cause it's a fighting game, balance and stuff. Other M is the only game to nerf Samus' abilities(besides Hunters) as whole, and these two changes make no sense. The Speed Booster is all around amazing in 3D. Using a "Shine Jump" instead of the Zero Mission Shine Spark is a bit disappointing, but Samus is a small areas, so the Shine Jump works better for the game, so there's no problem. The Screw Attack/Space Jump nerf puts a bad taste in my mouth when I want to play a different kind of Metroid after playing my Prime Trilogy for a while(you play anything for a while, you're gonna want a change of pace).

I don't see it as a nerfing, there's balance too it since the weapons were "upgraded" this time around too.

To be fair, the Charge shot's never been bigger, 'cept maybe for Prime 3 fully upgraded. and in the Cinematics for Other M vs the Mech, the charge shot deflects a thrown metal container the seen on trains, it's been given a ton a of kinetic energy this time round. cue in Diffusion beam and it's got an insane blast radius, not to mention increased muzzle velocity as the upgrades start stacking on to both normal and charnge, not to mention the FASTEST charge period of any metroid game when fully upgraded.

Super missiles now have the biggest radius they've ever had, and it's been combined with an improved seeker missile, automatically targeting up too 5 targets instantly while launching a super missile at the primary target.

Then Power bombs... they kill every spawned enemy in the room regardless of distance, detonate near instantly (even though there's a charge period).


screw attack and space jump are the only ones to get a direct nerf, but it's still not as bad as Prime, the screw attack is stronger in prime (it deals damage based on exposure, it's not an instant kill, just usually is), but the space jump is vastly improved, otherwise in Other M it'll kill -MOST- mooks, just not all.

not to mention infinite ammo on all weapons now.

Though, the recoil thing is probably to give a sense of empowerment as a visual aspect, and it seemed very much so that Ninja team tried their hardest to make Samus indeed seem very powerful, too bad they couldn't maintain her intimidating posture(s) from previous games though.

for the shine jump though.. same reason they nerfed space jump. They were too lazy to build the game around the abilities, and nerfed the abilities to make world development easier.
Now I say lazy, there could have been constraint reason, most prominently time, but still.
1. Yes the Charge Beam is huge in Other M, however, the regular beam as well as the charge beam fully upgraded in Super Metroid and Fusion were about as tall if not as tall as Samus, and there was she wasn't flown back three feet, whether in the air or on the ground. In Other M, the regular charge shot before getting the Diffusion Beam sends Samus back however. Same problem for the Super Missile, no big recoil before or since Other M(timeline wise). The explosion of the Super Missile n the 2D games were enough to make the ground shake and dislodge ceiling creatures in Super. Not nearly as big of a dust cloud as the Super Missile in Other M, but still, the Supers were pretty damn powerful. My main gripe is that the recoil can leave Samus vulnerable and can get you hit. In a fighting game like Smash Bros I have no problem since there needs to be balance. However, whether the recoil is meant to give the player the sense of badassery by firing a weapon with large recoil and nothing more or not, it makes Samus vulnerable and this is the only game to do it. btw, Samus used a regular beam shot, not a charge shot to deflect the crate flown by the Power Loader rip-off. Power Bombs are fine in this game, I'm not really sure which version is superior though. Both the charge version in Other M and the timer version in all the 2D games could be useful in specific situations.

2. How is the Space Jump vastly improved(I'm hoping you meant Screw Attack but wrote Space Jump by mistake)? You are only allowed two jumps, and then all you can do is maintain the same height. The timing to maintain your height is difficult to find and pull off, even compared to Metroid 2(I can perform the Space Jump easier in that game anyway...). The Screw Attack is not improved at all, since it can take up to 4-6 hit to kill certain enemies, not to mention the plant things leading the the Queen Ki Hunter can catch you out of the Screw Attack, shock you, then throw you to the ground. That just seem unaccetable. The Screw Attack appearance-wise got a downgrade too. In all of the games, when Samus used the Screw Attack, she looked like and energy/electrical buzzsaw cutting through the air. In Other M, Samus just has energy waves go all over the place, all sloppy looking. You can see Samus inside clearly, instead of being a blurr like in the 2D games.

I'm not sure what to think about the infinite ammo for weapons thing. The beams make sense having infinite ammo, since the beams seem to be default to the Power Suit, is energy based, and run off the suits seemingly endless power supply(at least as long as Samus is in good health). I believe I remember reading somewhere(a Prime log I think) that mentions Samus' suit seemingly having an endless, mysterious power supply, not sure though. If someone could find what I'm talking about I'd appreciate it. Missiles are tangible object and not energy based('cept for Prime 1 & 2, but that's another can of worms), so I call bullshit on those getting replenished through the power of will/friendship/LOOOOOOOVE!!! Your guess is as good as mine on this issue :P.

Maybe the Shine Jump is something Samus could in conjunction with the Shinespark from the 2D games. She can use both for whatever situation she encounters, you know?

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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Chozo Guardian » 01.07.14 10:31pm

The jumps are infinite but the height is not, you can't fly as high as you want like in the 2D games, and that's the only thing I didn't like about it.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Xerkxes » 01.08.14 3:04pm

The two weirdest things about Other M compared to the other games is that 1) The Charge Beam and Super Missiles cause Samus to have massive amounts of recoil, when that has never happened before. 2) The Screw Attack/Space Jump Combo was nerfed so you can gain height and the Screw Attack doesn't one hit kill regular moocks. I accept this easily in Smash cause it's a fighting game, balance and stuff. Other M is the only game to nerf Samus' abilities(besides Hunters) as whole, and these two changes make no sense. The Speed Booster is all around amazing in 3D. Using a "Shine Jump" instead of the Zero Mission Shine Spark is a bit disappointing, but Samus is a small areas, so the Shine Jump works better for the game, so there's no problem. The Screw Attack/Space Jump nerf puts a bad taste in my mouth when I want to play a different kind of Metroid after playing my Prime Trilogy for a while(you play anything for a while, you're gonna want a change of pace).

I don't see it as a nerfing, there's balance too it since the weapons were "upgraded" this time around too.

To be fair, the Charge shot's never been bigger, 'cept maybe for Prime 3 fully upgraded. and in the Cinematics for Other M vs the Mech, the charge shot deflects a thrown metal container the seen on trains, it's been given a ton a of kinetic energy this time round. cue in Diffusion beam and it's got an insane blast radius, not to mention increased muzzle velocity as the upgrades start stacking on to both normal and charnge, not to mention the FASTEST charge period of any metroid game when fully upgraded.

Super missiles now have the biggest radius they've ever had, and it's been combined with an improved seeker missile, automatically targeting up too 5 targets instantly while launching a super missile at the primary target.

Then Power bombs... they kill every spawned enemy in the room regardless of distance, detonate near instantly (even though there's a charge period).


screw attack and space jump are the only ones to get a direct nerf, but it's still not as bad as Prime, the screw attack is stronger in prime (it deals damage based on exposure, it's not an instant kill, just usually is), but the space jump is vastly improved, otherwise in Other M it'll kill -MOST- mooks, just not all.

not to mention infinite ammo on all weapons now.

Though, the recoil thing is probably to give a sense of empowerment as a visual aspect, and it seemed very much so that Ninja team tried their hardest to make Samus indeed seem very powerful, too bad they couldn't maintain her intimidating posture(s) from previous games though.

for the shine jump though.. same reason they nerfed space jump. They were too lazy to build the game around the abilities, and nerfed the abilities to make world development easier.
Now I say lazy, there could have been constraint reason, most prominently time, but still.
1. Yes the Charge Beam is huge in Other M, however, the regular beam as well as the charge beam fully upgraded in Super Metroid and Fusion were about as tall if not as tall as Samus, and there was she wasn't flown back three feet, whether in the air or on the ground. In Other M, the regular charge shot before getting the Diffusion Beam sends Samus back however. Same problem for the Super Missile, no big recoil before or since Other M(timeline wise). The explosion of the Super Missile n the 2D games were enough to make the ground shake and dislodge ceiling creatures in Super. Not nearly as big of a dust cloud as the Super Missile in Other M, but still, the Supers were pretty damn powerful. My main gripe is that the recoil can leave Samus vulnerable and can get you hit. In a fighting game like Smash Bros I have no problem since there needs to be balance. However, whether the recoil is meant to give the player the sense of badassery by firing a weapon with large recoil and nothing more or not, it makes Samus vulnerable and this is the only game to do it. btw, Samus used a regular beam shot, not a charge shot to deflect the crate flown by the Power Loader rip-off. Power Bombs are fine in this game, I'm not really sure which version is superior though. Both the charge version in Other M and the timer version in all the 2D games could be useful in specific situations.

2. How is the Space Jump vastly improved(I'm hoping you meant Screw Attack but wrote Space Jump by mistake)? You are only allowed two jumps, and then all you can do is maintain the same height. The timing to maintain your height is difficult to find and pull off, even compared to Metroid 2(I can perform the Space Jump easier in that game anyway...). The Screw Attack is not improved at all, since it can take up to 4-6 hit to kill certain enemies, not to mention the plant things leading the the Queen Ki Hunter can catch you out of the Screw Attack, shock you, then throw you to the ground. That just seem unaccetable. The Screw Attack appearance-wise got a downgrade too. In all of the games, when Samus used the Screw Attack, she looked like and energy/electrical buzzsaw cutting through the air. In Other M, Samus just has energy waves go all over the place, all sloppy looking. You can see Samus inside clearly, instead of being a blurr like in the 2D games.

I'm not sure what to think about the infinite ammo for weapons thing. The beams make sense having infinite ammo, since the beams seem to be default to the Power Suit, is energy based, and run off the suits seemingly endless power supply(at least as long as Samus is in good health). I believe I remember reading somewhere(a Prime log I think) that mentions Samus' suit seemingly having an endless, mysterious power supply, not sure though. If someone could find what I'm talking about I'd appreciate it. Missiles are tangible object and not energy based('cept for Prime 1 & 2, but that's another can of worms), so I call bullshit on those getting replenished through the power of will/friendship/LOOOOOOOVE!!! Your guess is as good as mine on this issue :P.

Maybe the Shine Jump is something Samus could in conjunction with the Shinespark from the 2D games. She can use both for whatever situation she encounters, you know?
1:
2D Charge beam was huge because of the multiple projectiles, it more or less rivals the Other M full upgrade as for size, but otherwise lacked a blast radius (which could trigger multiple times due too the plasma beam in Other M) and had no knock back (which is unique to Prime and Other M), so a single shot from Other M will hit everything in a straight line and creatures near any hit targets in the line, as opposed to 2D games only anything in the given line, what's more fire charge shots more frequently.

So still, the balance of increased firepower is lost mobility.. which isn't entirely true because you could sense move to dodge even directly after firing, maybe a with a half second delay.
That being brought up, Counter Charge shots, another offensive boon brought from a evasive maneuver.

Three feet is an exaggeration, maybe half or 1/2 at most.

Super missiles yeah 3 feet or a meter recoil, but one shot an nearly everything in the room in one general direction is dead since endgame you launch 4 normal and a super missile that all of have scary homing ability and lock onto seperate targets instantly, the 2D super missiles could cause quakes but wouldn't damage anything that wasn't directly hit by the missile, the only 2D metroid that I've played that has missiles with actually damaging blast radii is AM2R, and Fusion (which didn't have the quake effect and still didn't do damage)

Huh, your right about the crate, even more points for it having devastating push capability.

If we're talking devastation, Other M power bombs have a larger blast radius, I found it hard to test but I believe they flat up kill everything in the room, even at something like 100 meters, all previous games are like a 1/4 that. not to mention it kills most things in the game instantly, power bombs of old did very high damage, but had a lower "instant kill" ratio compared to the Other M version.
2D games gets higher frequency of use, and Fusion had the "vaccume" effect, though really only useful to that game. I'd comment limited ammo, but when you can have like 50+ of them I don't think anyone would give a damn about ammo.

in conjunction with Sense Move, Concentration, and her powered up weapons. Even with the recoil we're still looking at potentially the highest level of offence she's ever had, but without a doubt the most room clearing power, and debatively the most evasive.

however, also a lower defence, since you get a max of 10 energy tanks, the mode of Metroid's energy tank count being 12 I think, Fusion and Super having her Highest energy tank count. though it is offset by limitless ammo and ability to restore health as needed.

--

2:
Yes, I meant Space Jump compared to Primes Space jump boots + Screw attack.
I didn't say the screw attack of Other M was improved.
Never had an issue with being "caught" in the screw attack, actually I do allude it to being the weakest it's ever been, even if still a very strong weapon killing the vast majority of non boss enemies in single touch, only issue some late-game foes.
It's like the Power Bombs and Screw attack swapped places for "most potent weapon" for Other M. 2D screw attack made nearly all non boss enemies trivial in previous metroid games (not as much in Zero mission, which I believe the black space pirates can't be killed by it instantly, and space pirates in general can shoot you out of it, unlike most other game)

I do find though.. that it's easier to hit with the screw attack, like it has a slightly bigger "reach" than in the primes at least, which almost requires a direct hit, and the 2D's DO require a direct hit, but in Other M I felt enemies close enough to the sides of the screw attack (Samus' left and right) get hit too, I think the hit box was a sphere. I know that's physically impossible to achieve in 2D games, but still.
but visually, I do agree, save for Samus' weapons the whole game was very lazy for appearance.

However I believe it's watering down is to give other abilities in the game more purpose.
Wall Jumping and the Grapple Beam would become virtually useless if the space jump works as it did in previous games.
hence why it wasn't brough back into Fusion or Zero.

--

I think the infinite energy is a upgrade over enemy drops.
I mean, why does a creature who's never seen a missile before drop missile ammo? or even bombs?
one could try and explain that those images are just "energy", and that her suit can pick up the ambient, lost life energy of foes you've killed. since the chozo did know of this mysterious life energy, and genetically engiuneered a creature that could consume it, why not make an armor that could vitually do the same? as one theory
Nintendo has been pretty generous with ammo, I mean in metroid not only can you get a rather hefty some of munitions, most bosses post since Fusion/Prime there's some means to restore health and Ammo mid boss fight.
However, the new Concentration method speeds up the game for the most part
Speeds up as you'll never need to backtrack to find more missile ammo to open a door, or stop at those monster spawning pipes to restore ammo.

I remember reading something like that too.. though I don't remember the endless part, just the mysterious. I think it was the prime manual.
to explain it, Matter to Energy conversion is the likely cause in my opinion, and Samus' "Will" power isn't necessarily what's powering the suit, it's what's controlling it, but can use that "will" to summon energy from herself to the suit, I'm talking dat life energy.

but this is all theory.

For the Shine Jump I think it's the same thing, different name, watered down.
However I did love that there was a boss fight that you could actually use it in, legitimately.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby TheAccursedHunter01 » 01.08.14 3:50pm

The two weirdest things about Other M compared to the other games is that 1) The Charge Beam and Super Missiles cause Samus to have massive amounts of recoil, when that has never happened before. 2) The Screw Attack/Space Jump Combo was nerfed so you can gain height and the Screw Attack doesn't one hit kill regular moocks. I accept this easily in Smash cause it's a fighting game, balance and stuff. Other M is the only game to nerf Samus' abilities(besides Hunters) as whole, and these two changes make no sense. The Speed Booster is all around amazing in 3D. Using a "Shine Jump" instead of the Zero Mission Shine Spark is a bit disappointing, but Samus is a small areas, so the Shine Jump works better for the game, so there's no problem. The Screw Attack/Space Jump nerf puts a bad taste in my mouth when I want to play a different kind of Metroid after playing my Prime Trilogy for a while(you play anything for a while, you're gonna want a change of pace).

I don't see it as a nerfing, there's balance too it since the weapons were "upgraded" this time around too.

To be fair, the Charge shot's never been bigger, 'cept maybe for Prime 3 fully upgraded. and in the Cinematics for Other M vs the Mech, the charge shot deflects a thrown metal container the seen on trains, it's been given a ton a of kinetic energy this time round. cue in Diffusion beam and it's got an insane blast radius, not to mention increased muzzle velocity as the upgrades start stacking on to both normal and charnge, not to mention the FASTEST charge period of any metroid game when fully upgraded.

Super missiles now have the biggest radius they've ever had, and it's been combined with an improved seeker missile, automatically targeting up too 5 targets instantly while launching a super missile at the primary target.

Then Power bombs... they kill every spawned enemy in the room regardless of distance, detonate near instantly (even though there's a charge period).


screw attack and space jump are the only ones to get a direct nerf, but it's still not as bad as Prime, the screw attack is stronger in prime (it deals damage based on exposure, it's not an instant kill, just usually is), but the space jump is vastly improved, otherwise in Other M it'll kill -MOST- mooks, just not all.

not to mention infinite ammo on all weapons now.

Though, the recoil thing is probably to give a sense of empowerment as a visual aspect, and it seemed very much so that Ninja team tried their hardest to make Samus indeed seem very powerful, too bad they couldn't maintain her intimidating posture(s) from previous games though.

for the shine jump though.. same reason they nerfed space jump. They were too lazy to build the game around the abilities, and nerfed the abilities to make world development easier.
Now I say lazy, there could have been constraint reason, most prominently time, but still.
1. Yes the Charge Beam is huge in Other M, however, the regular beam as well as the charge beam fully upgraded in Super Metroid and Fusion were about as tall if not as tall as Samus, and there was she wasn't flown back three feet, whether in the air or on the ground. In Other M, the regular charge shot before getting the Diffusion Beam sends Samus back however. Same problem for the Super Missile, no big recoil before or since Other M(timeline wise). The explosion of the Super Missile n the 2D games were enough to make the ground shake and dislodge ceiling creatures in Super. Not nearly as big of a dust cloud as the Super Missile in Other M, but still, the Supers were pretty damn powerful. My main gripe is that the recoil can leave Samus vulnerable and can get you hit. In a fighting game like Smash Bros I have no problem since there needs to be balance. However, whether the recoil is meant to give the player the sense of badassery by firing a weapon with large recoil and nothing more or not, it makes Samus vulnerable and this is the only game to do it. btw, Samus used a regular beam shot, not a charge shot to deflect the crate flown by the Power Loader rip-off. Power Bombs are fine in this game, I'm not really sure which version is superior though. Both the charge version in Other M and the timer version in all the 2D games could be useful in specific situations.

2. How is the Space Jump vastly improved(I'm hoping you meant Screw Attack but wrote Space Jump by mistake)? You are only allowed two jumps, and then all you can do is maintain the same height. The timing to maintain your height is difficult to find and pull off, even compared to Metroid 2(I can perform the Space Jump easier in that game anyway...). The Screw Attack is not improved at all, since it can take up to 4-6 hit to kill certain enemies, not to mention the plant things leading the the Queen Ki Hunter can catch you out of the Screw Attack, shock you, then throw you to the ground. That just seem unaccetable. The Screw Attack appearance-wise got a downgrade too. In all of the games, when Samus used the Screw Attack, she looked like and energy/electrical buzzsaw cutting through the air. In Other M, Samus just has energy waves go all over the place, all sloppy looking. You can see Samus inside clearly, instead of being a blurr like in the 2D games.

I'm not sure what to think about the infinite ammo for weapons thing. The beams make sense having infinite ammo, since the beams seem to be default to the Power Suit, is energy based, and run off the suits seemingly endless power supply(at least as long as Samus is in good health). I believe I remember reading somewhere(a Prime log I think) that mentions Samus' suit seemingly having an endless, mysterious power supply, not sure though. If someone could find what I'm talking about I'd appreciate it. Missiles are tangible object and not energy based('cept for Prime 1 & 2, but that's another can of worms), so I call bullshit on those getting replenished through the power of will/friendship/LOOOOOOOVE!!! Your guess is as good as mine on this issue :P.

Maybe the Shine Jump is something Samus could in conjunction with the Shinespark from the 2D games. She can use both for whatever situation she encounters, you know?
1:
2D Charge beam was huge because of the multiple projectiles, it more or less rivals the Other M full upgrade as for size, but otherwise lacked a blast radius (which could trigger multiple times due too the plasma beam in Other M) and had no knock back (which is unique to Prime and Other M), so a single shot from Other M will hit everything in a straight line and creatures near any hit targets in the line, as opposed to 2D games only anything in the given line, what's more fire charge shots more frequently.

So still, the balance of increased firepower is lost mobility.. which isn't entirely true because you could sense move to dodge even directly after firing, maybe a with a half second delay.
That being brought up, Counter Charge shots, another offensive boon brought from a evasive maneuver.

Three feet is an exaggeration, maybe half or 1/2 at most.

Super missiles yeah 3 feet or a meter recoil, but one shot an nearly everything in the room in one general direction is dead since endgame you launch 4 normal and a super missile that all of have scary homing ability and lock onto seperate targets instantly, the 2D super missiles could cause quakes but wouldn't damage anything that wasn't directly hit by the missile, the only 2D metroid that I've played that has missiles with actually damaging blast radii is AM2R, and Fusion (which didn't have the quake effect and still didn't do damage)

Huh, your right about the crate, even more points for it having devastating push capability.

If we're talking devastation, Other M power bombs have a larger blast radius, I found it hard to test but I believe they flat up kill everything in the room, even at something like 100 meters, all previous games are like a 1/4 that. not to mention it kills most things in the game instantly, power bombs of old did very high damage, but had a lower "instant kill" ratio compared to the Other M version.
2D games gets higher frequency of use, and Fusion had the "vaccume" effect, though really only useful to that game. I'd comment limited ammo, but when you can have like 50+ of them I don't think anyone would give a damn about ammo.

in conjunction with Sense Move, Concentration, and her powered up weapons. Even with the recoil we're still looking at potentially the highest level of offence she's ever had, but without a doubt the most room clearing power, and debatively the most evasive.

however, also a lower defence, since you get a max of 10 energy tanks, the mode of Metroid's energy tank count being 12 I think, Fusion and Super having her Highest energy tank count. though it is offset by limitless ammo and ability to restore health as needed.

--

2:
Yes, I meant Space Jump compared to Primes Space jump boots + Screw attack.
I didn't say the screw attack of Other M was improved.
Never had an issue with being "caught" in the screw attack, actually I do allude it to being the weakest it's ever been, even if still a very strong weapon killing the vast majority of non boss enemies in single touch, only issue some late-game foes.
It's like the Power Bombs and Screw attack swapped places for "most potent weapon" for Other M. 2D screw attack made nearly all non boss enemies trivial in previous metroid games (not as much in Zero mission, which I believe the black space pirates can't be killed by it instantly, and space pirates in general can shoot you out of it, unlike most other game)

I do find though.. that it's easier to hit with the screw attack, like it has a slightly bigger "reach" than in the primes at least, which almost requires a direct hit, and the 2D's DO require a direct hit, but in Other M I felt enemies close enough to the sides of the screw attack (Samus' left and right) get hit too, I think the hit box was a sphere. I know that's physically impossible to achieve in 2D games, but still.
but visually, I do agree, save for Samus' weapons the whole game was very lazy for appearance.

However I believe it's watering down is to give other abilities in the game more purpose.
Wall Jumping and the Grapple Beam would become virtually useless if the space jump works as it did in previous games.
hence why it wasn't brough back into Fusion or Zero.

--

I think the infinite energy is a upgrade over enemy drops.
I mean, why does a creature who's never seen a missile before drop missile ammo? or even bombs?
one could try and explain that those images are just "energy", and that her suit can pick up the ambient, lost life energy of foes you've killed. since the chozo did know of this mysterious life energy, and genetically engiuneered a creature that could consume it, why not make an armor that could vitually do the same? as one theory
Nintendo has been pretty generous with ammo, I mean in metroid not only can you get a rather hefty some of munitions, most bosses post since Fusion/Prime there's some means to restore health and Ammo mid boss fight.
However, the new Concentration method speeds up the game for the most part
Speeds up as you'll never need to backtrack to find more missile ammo to open a door, or stop at those monster spawning pipes to restore ammo.

I remember reading something like that too.. though I don't remember the endless part, just the mysterious. I think it was the prime manual.
to explain it, Matter to Energy conversion is the likely cause in my opinion, and Samus' "Will" power isn't necessarily what's powering the suit, it's what's controlling it, but can use that "will" to summon energy from herself to the suit, I'm talking dat life energy.

but this is all theory.

For the Shine Jump I think it's the same thing, different name, watered down.
However I did love that there was a boss fight that you could actually use it in, legitimately.
The Space Jump never allowed Samus to travel left to right quickly, only up and down. The Grapple Beam in Other M, despite being less versatile than the Grapple Lasso, allowed Samus to move left to right quickly. There is no reason why the Space jump can't allow Samus to make infinite jumps and gain infinite height, even if it's just to climb shafts quickly.

I hate there being no items pickups for one reason, you can't recover health unless your in the red zone. The only times I have ever died in Other M was because my health was knocked low enough to be one shotted, but high enough so I couldn't concentrate it back. I suppose no missile pickups are fine, but why are no health pickups so bad? Makes you wonder why Samus can't concentrate her health back at anytime like her missiles.

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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Big Guy » 01.08.14 3:55pm

bbbut... the immersion and... stuff
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby The Worm » 01.08.14 5:01pm

-snip-

I think the infinite energy is a upgrade over enemy drops.
I mean, why does a creature who's never seen a missile before drop missile ammo? or even bombs?
one could try and explain that those images are just "energy", and that her suit can pick up the ambient, lost life energy of foes you've killed. since the chozo did know of this mysterious life energy, and genetically engiuneered a creature that could consume it, why not make an armor that could vitually do the same? as one theory
Nintendo has been pretty generous with ammo, I mean in metroid not only can you get a rather hefty some of munitions, most bosses post since Fusion/Prime there's some means to restore health and Ammo mid boss fight.
However, the new Concentration method speeds up the game for the most part
Speeds up as you'll never need to backtrack to find more missile ammo to open a door, or stop at those monster spawning pipes to restore ammo.

I remember reading something like that too.. though I don't remember the endless part, just the mysterious. I think it was the prime manual.
to explain it, Matter to Energy conversion is the likely cause in my opinion, and Samus' "Will" power isn't necessarily what's powering the suit, it's what's controlling it, but can use that "will" to summon energy from herself to the suit, I'm talking dat life energy.

-snip-
And I suppose it makes perfect sense if I can get hearts, arrows, and bombs just by chopping up grass with a sword? It doesn't need to be logical, dude. Pickups are a pretty standard thing to expect in video games and are often a lot better than other implementations of life and item restoration.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Chozo Guardian » 01.08.14 7:59pm

Exactly.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Xerkxes » 01.08.14 9:15pm

The Space Jump never allowed Samus to travel left to right quickly, only up and down. The Grapple Beam in Other M, despite being less versatile than the Grapple Lasso, allowed Samus to move left to right quickly. There is no reason why the Space jump can't allow Samus to make infinite jumps and gain infinite height, even if it's just to climb shafts quickly.

I hate there being no items pickups for one reason, you can't recover health unless your in the red zone. The only times I have ever died in Other M was because my health was knocked low enough to be one shotted, but high enough so I couldn't concentrate it back. I suppose no missile pickups are fine, but why are no health pickups so bad? Makes you wonder why Samus can't concentrate her health back at anytime like her missiles.
Wall jumps in Other M climbs shafts faster than the space jump ever could.. actually in Super metroid too if you do it against a single wall.

'cept the 2D space jump which can be used in conjunction with the Speed booster.

granted in Fusion or Zero it was rare that you'd have the space to do that, but Super since there's was a speed build up you could be get extra speed from even just a few feat, greatly increases her horizontal travel speed with the spae jump.


And I suppose it makes perfect sense if I can get hearts, arrows, and bombs just by chopping up grass with a sword? It doesn't need to be logical, dude. Pickups are a pretty standard thing to expect in video games and are often a lot better than other implementations of life and item restoration.

The Other reasoning being speed. Rather than farm for missiles at an infinite monster spawn pipe for about a minute, in a second or two your replenished.

I honestly don't care if the old way is illogical, random drops are fine by me, my real thing against the old method is why bother given limitations if they throw more are you when you need it? in this sense you've always had infinite ammo.
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Re: Other M Weirdness (Spoilers)

Postby Big Guy » 01.12.14 9:29pm

It's more for boss fights. It's a lot easier to beat, for example, Kraid without having to farm missiles from his fingernails. Other M just completely got rid of any point for collection any missile expansions beyond "hey guys I go 100%!" It also made the hard mode limitation pointless.
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