Why do people hate the P.T.S.D. in this game?

[redred622]

as you know when Samus sees Ridley she was the whole ptsd thing. there is no reason to hate that moment.
Okay so what if she did not react like that in previous games look at these

then this happens a little later

then a Chozo explains what's happening

in other M Ridley was supposed to be dead being destroyed along with Zebes. so sock could also play a part in this.
and she does not "get over it" like some people think. She snaps out of it. during the fight she is still afraid she is just not in the same state as she was before. this is not the first ingame instance of PTSD in prime 3 she attempts to Violently kill Ridley (I read in an article that this can be attributed to PTSD)
The only problems I had with the scene was the voice acting of Samus as a child and that it's Kinda one of those
scenes that give me a bit of angst.
but really tell me what who think of my opinion?

P.S. I am back!

[rondus18]

People don't hate her panic attack because they have a problem with Samus having PTSD. Whether they realize that or not. People hate it because it was cheap. The subject wasn't explored at all, there was no payoff, no foreshadowing, no consequences, no lesson learned, and it didn't tell us anything about Samus that we didn't already know except that she probably has PTSD.

Take Anthony's 'death' for example. You might expect the story to do something with an event like that. Anthony died because Samus dropped the ball, it was her fault. She was running from her problems in a sense and because of that someone died. The lesson Samus could have taken from this was that she needed to confront her problems rather than repress them. But she doesn't take a lesson from it; she learns nothing and there is no character growth. Not only that, but she doesn't even kill Ridley, something else does that and Ridley just comes back to life in the next game anyways, and Anthony doesn't stay dead either. There is nothing in this scene that goes anywhere or has any lasting impact. It was all pointless. From a story telling perspective there is no reason why this scene shouldn't have been cut from the game entirely.

[Apothem]

Rondus makes an excellent point: The whole Ridley scene is superfluous. There's a point to the battle, just not the breakdown preceding it. People have been defending that moment since the game's inception, and as a testament to how poorly conceived that confrontation was, no two people seem able to agree on the same reasoning for it. The whole Post Traumatic Stress Disorder defense is equally superfluous. Samus never once in the games, the primary medium by which her paper thin story is told and thus the primary source for the series cannon, experienced anything even remotely resembling PTSD, or apparently had any reason to do so. Such a disorder was never a part of her character as established by the series, and having her breakdown for no apparent reason in the face of an enemy whom she had defeated multiple times before, each occurrence seemingly more final than the last, is the epitome of bad writing.

Sakamoto wanted to humanize Samus, a character who's rarely had means to express herself in any meaningful way, a bold if not admirable goal, but he went about it in the most ass-backwards way imaginable. Presenting character flaws without precedent only shows a writer desperately striving for depth without understanding reasoning. We, the audience, were never once given reason to believe Samus would behave in such a way. The games have never elaborated on her past, her emotional state or potential problems therein. She has always been displayed as strong, independent, remarkably self-sufficient and impeccably capable of accomplishing seemingly anything. As such, her breakdown was entirely out of character.

[Remnants]

Oh boy, what hasn't been said about this already?
From my viewpoint, how couldn't this so-called advanced Chozo species, with all of their vast knowledge including areas like the brain and psychology, not be able to remedy this problem? They have every reason to do so: leaving their last remaining warrior with any weakness is an unnecessarily risky gamble.
Oh and I would expect them to teach Samus the art of "mind over matter" like all martial arts do to some degree at least so this kind of training might have at least gotten her to snap out of it more quickly.

Is there really any more blood to beat out of this dead horse?

[Chipou]

Rondus pretty much said all there is on the matter. it wasnt set up properly, and the consequences of being unable to help her friend were ignored. if done correctly it wouldve been great, but unfortunately, like most everything in other M, it wasnt.

[Zynux]

Everything about this issue has been said already, and rondus18 pretty much put the nail in the coffin but I wanted to add something: my main problem with the Ridley scene is not that it makes “Samus look weak” or that she almost gets her friend get killed; it's the fact that from a characterization standpoint it simply makes no sense if you analyze her past exploits and baddies that she fought (just for the sake of argument, I'm going to avoid mentioning the Primes, and that mentioning them would just be overkill anyway). These exploits explore Metroid: Zero Mission, Metroid II, Super Metroid, and everything in Metroid: Other M she went through before confronting Ridley. Also my memory is a bit fuzzy so sue me if I get something wrong of miss something.


In Metroid: Zero Mission Samus...

- Is dumped on an Alien world alone and isolated, though once home, now infested with hostile creatures all around her, including the Space Pirates. Imagine the psychological effects this could have on a normal human being, especially if the entire world is underground, dark, and caverns.
- Travels through hostile environment, including lava (Norfair)
- Fights battles with notoriously dangerous enemies. Special mention goes too:
- Ridley
- Kraid (definitely Kraid. Imagine fighting against that thing. I'd be shitting my pants )
- Mother Brain
- Mecha-Ridley/Ridley Robot
- King Worm
- Mua
- Imago
- Before fighting Mother Brain must kill the Metroids in Tourian, who are one of the most fearsome creatures in the galaxy by now.
- Survived the explosion of the Space Pirate Base (I presumed it was Mother Brain that initiated detonation)
- After the defeat of Mother Brain, her Gunship is shot down by Space Pirates. Crashed back on Zebes and lost her power-suit, Samus decides to infiltrate the Space Pirate Mothership, with nothing more than a “uselss pistol” (her words). Seriously, damn.


In Metroid II Samus...

- Is once again dropped on an Alien world, isolated and alone, and then proceeds to commit genocide of the Metroids (not that Metroids are considered so dangerous that they could “end galactic civilization). Notable Metroids she fights include:
- Omega Metroid
- Queen Metroid
- Escapes the volcanic eruptions.


In Super Metroid Samus...

- Once again alone and isolated on the planet. Still as hostile as ever. Must travel dark and dangerous caverns.
- Travels through more dangerous areas, like Norfair and the Wrecked Ship which was just eerie.
- Fights even more dangerous enemies than her last Zebes mission. Special mention goes too:
- Ridley
- Kraid
- Mother Brain
- Botwoon
- Crocomire
- Spore Spwan
- Draygon
- Phantoon
- Manages to escape the exploding Planet Zebes.


Before Ridley in Other M Samus fought against Vorash, Goyagma, Rhedogian, Fune and Namihe, Groganch...all notorious tough creaturres, and scary if they existed.


Because of her past exploits and creatures that she fought, I find it increasingly difficult to defend the Ridley scene. There is no reason, let me repeat: no reason why she should be afraid of Ridley anymore by time Metroid: Other M comes around. One could even argue that creatures like Kraid, Mother Brain (Super Metroid incarnation), Vorash, Goyagma and Phantoon are more terrifying than Ridley (though this is debatable). Are you seriously going to say that she's now all of a sudden, after facing so many challenges and defeating Ridley twice she's all of a sudden afraid of him? If anything, I would probably become arrogant, cocky, and think I'm an unstoppable force of destruction (like ) . Honestly, from a storytelling perspective, her being afraid of Ridley now is just hardly believable, even in a fantasy/sci-fi world.


Using the Manga to defend the scene doesn't really help, since not only was it one of her first missions but she overcame her fears at the end. Metroid: Other M would be her fourth mission, and it seems that she never overcame her fear.


Again, I didn't mention the Primes because that would just be overkill. If you include the Primes in this, where she fought even more terrifying creatures, fought Ridley three times (Remember: Twice in Prime 3), and blew up Phaaze, the scene just becomes embarrassing honestly. Not to mention her occupation as a Bounty Hunter; who knows what else she went through that are not covered in the games.


Just my two cents on this dead horse (beyond dead by now. I don't think there is even a corpse anymore ).

[Infinity's End]

You rang?


The best defense of this scene (if it even deserves one, which it probably doesn't) was that it's done in such a way to show that time slowed down (a staple in anime), and it's supposed to depict that Samus felt like a child for a split second, before coming to her senses and gunning down the sonofabitch. The whole scene could be lasting 5-10 seconds, tops.

I don't find the scene to be the complete ruination of neither the game, the series as a whole, nor Samus as a character, but this, among plenty of other things in MOM could have been handled a lot better. Most people at this point just put all the blame on Sakamoto and his lack of experience in the writing department. Not to mention he failed in putting forth a high enough amount of respect on the Metroid series. He undermined the potential of what Samus could have been, which is what disappointed most of the fans.

FWIW, I like the scene a hell of a lot more than a lot of people here, since it shows Samus has a weakness: Ridley. People use her past experiences as "proof" that Samus is some kind of Schwarzenegger-like, unstoppable badass without any kind of compassion, but I just say let them do what they want. I'll play the games regardless.

[Angel of fire]

So, what IE is saying is that the scene in MOM is the same duration as this scene:


I see this as a good explanation. I still think this could have been done better, but I never really hated the story anyway. It's like reading a book and seeing a character in your head, then watching it's movie and seeing the same character. I don't care how your character looks, I will see it my own way.

[Trishbot]

So, what IE is saying is that the scene in MOM is the same duration as this scene:

Even then, in Zero Mission, the look on her face is nothing at all like fear, panic, or an emotional breakdown.

Rather, it was quite the opposite; determination, anger, maybe even hatred.


Even if there was no precedent for her having PTSD, saddling a character like her with that problem is counter-progressive to what most people enjoy Metroid, or games in general, for.

In one of my game design classes, my teacher actually talked about Other M and Metroid in general, saying that one of the best things the series does is give players a sense of empowerment, self-confidence, and courage in desolate, hopeless situations. Basically, he said people enjoy Samus and Metroid because the games make the player feel stronger, braver, smarter, and more skilled than they truly are.

This becomes a problem when a series thrives on these elements, but then Other M flies off in the opposite direction, making players feel weaker, restricted, looked down upon and talked down to, made to feel that the character they're controlling is incompetent, weak, fearful, or unreliable. Now, that may or may not be true, but as we talked about it, we discussed the psychological differences between Other M and the older games, where one made us feel like David slaying Goliath, overcoming the odds and earning power and respect, and one game made us feel like a love-struck teenage girl with a crush on an older boy who had such poor self-esteem she did stupid things to earn his favor and interest, to the point that she hurt her other friends in the process.

As a storytelling mechanism, I'm okay with PTSD, even if it doesn't mesh with prior games' continuity, but as a gameplay mechanism, it really hurts the feeling of fun and empowerment gamers thrive on as they slay increasingly large and dangerous monsters, especially when the character on screen doesn't behave in a way that the gamer might be feeling. I was taught that no game is single-player; it's teamwork between the player and the avatar they're controlling. When one drops the ball, it effects the team dynamic. So it would be like going to a football game where you're psyched up to win the big game, but your star quarterback, who has been so awesome in all games prior, is huddled in the locker room crying because his girlfriend doesn't trust him or because he's scared of the other team. It affects the way the game would be played. It might make for a good soap opera, but when it's time to game, that sort of drama is preferably kept out of the field or, in this case, the player's experience and enjoyment.

[Emperor Ing]

I feel like the whole scene should have been just Anthony smack-talking Ridley while backflipping with his heavy plasma gun.

In fact, every scene in the game could have been that.

[Tianna]

I feel like the whole scene should have been just Anthony smack-talking Ridley while backflipping with his heavy plasma gun.

I don't have any strong complaints about M:OM, but that would have been fucking epic.

[Chris]

There was a line earlier on in the game that explains the behaviour, she thought she had finally killed him once and for all, it was a massive shock to see him again.

[Trishbot]

There was a line earlier on in the game that explains the behaviour, she thought she had finally killed him once and for all, it was a massive shock to see him again.

I really don't buy that, though. As we've covered before (tirelessly, endlessly, for all eternity), she's pretty much "finished him off" in most of her run-ins with him. By Other M logic, she would have thought he was finally killed "once and for all" and get a "massive shock" during practically every game.

In the manga, she wastes him. In Zero Mission (pictured above) she scowls and blows him up again. If you count the Prime continuity, that's two instances there where he returns from beyond-the-dead in super-robot form... and she kills him again. Then Super Metroid has him come back, and she blows him up... again. We've seen Ridley more often than any other villain in Metroid, it seems to be a fallacy of Samus to EVER think he's "down for good", just as Batman never accepts the Joker's many "deaths" or why fans keep expecting Ganondorf to come back every game despite the fact we ran a sword through his brain in the last game.

Even if that was the case, it again creates a disconnect between Samus and player, where the player is expecting Ridley in a new Metroid game, is not surprised or afraid by his appearance, and is hyped up and ready to kill him all over again... and Samus, in every game but Other M, always accommodates the player's desires and gets straight to business. Only in Other M is there that disconnect in the games between player expectations and Samus's call to action... or, in this case, inaction as she freezes and goes into hysterics. That moment, more than the content, bothers me because of the dissonance between the player and the hero they control. Granted, in the right hands, that can be very effective, but like most things Other M does, it's good ideas were met with sloppy execution and disappointing context and experience.

[kadosho]

Digested M-OM through the cutscenes. And understand what wasn't the best Metroid (but it was worth a try).
The PTSD could have been better without it. We (the longtime fans know what is a trigger to Samus).
M-OM was meant to bring in newcomers. So it was give and take for that scene.

Just a facepalm, and let us call it a day.

[FacelessGriffin]

So hello there again. Merry christmas and whatnot. Just paying quick visit.

In the manga, she wastes him. In Zero Mission (pictured above) she scowls and blows him up again. If you count the Prime continuity, that's two instances there where he returns from beyond-the-dead in super-robot form... and she kills him again. Then Super Metroid has him come back, and she blows him up... again.

Planet going kaboom. I think I don't need to elaborate on that counter-arguement again.

We've seen Ridley more often than any other villain in Metroid, it seems to be a fallacy of Samus to EVER think he's "down for good"

Characters in fiction don't know they are in fiction.

just as Batman never accepts the Joker's many "deaths"

Except in every single adaptation of Batman ever made where Joker dies or looks like he does. The Batman Beyond movie for example certainly didn't look like Mr. Wayne was expecting Joker to knock on the door that tuesday evening.

Why fans keep expecting Ganondorf to come back every game despite the fact we ran a sword through his brain in the last game.

I'm pretty sure fans don't expect that. In fact, I'm pretty sure most fans hope that would never happen again.

Even if that was the case, it again creates a disconnect between Samus and player, where the player is expecting Ridley in a new Metroid game, is not surprised or afraid by his appearance, and is hyped up and ready to kill him all over again... and Samus, in every game but Other M, always accommodates the player's desires and gets straight to business.

Why should a character follow the desire of the audience? Those every other game but Other M can be explained by the fact that Samus had as much of a character as the space marine from Doom.

In one of my game design classes, my teacher actually talked about Other M and Metroid in general, saying that one of the best things the series does is give players a sense of empowerment, self-confidence, and courage in desolate, hopeless situations. Basically, he said people enjoy Samus and Metroid because the games make the player feel stronger, braver, smarter, and more skilled than they truly are.

... And suddenly gaming sounds really pathetic.

And thanks for OP to remind why I really didn't like the middle chapters of that manga.

So, is this place gonna keep beating up hooved animal corpses 'till the end of time.