Other M: Canonically impossible?

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ChaosWolf

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Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby ChaosWolf » 12.08.13 5:56pm

I recently had something pointed out to me, that is rather unnerving...

If, as Nintendo is claiming, that Other M and all the events and occurences therein are canon, then it basically wipes out all the other games.

If Other M is canon, it means:

The Prime Trilogy can't be canon, since she had missions from and with the GF, which she supposedly broke all ties with in Other M.
Once Samus defeated Mother Brain, Other M says the Space Pirates should've reverted to basically being like animals, and couldn't possibly have done all the science-stuff they did for reviving Kraid and Ridley and such for Super Metroid, or done the stuff they did during the stealth-sections of Zero Mission, so they're not canon either.
The way Other M claims how the suit works negates the events that kicked off Fusion, so again, it's no longer able to be canon.
Other M's plot involved "breeding out" the cold vulnerability of Metroids, which Metroid II says occurs naturally from beta-radiation-induced evolution - guess that makes Metroid II non-canonical too.

And that's all without even getting near all the mess that Samus' behavior and personality in Other M is compared to the other games.

So the only way Other M can be canon... is to make it so nothing else can be.
Yeah the Space Pirates and their intricate system of tube-mazes and easily-breakable Metroid containers strike fear in the hearts of the galaxy.

Apothem

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Apothem » 12.08.13 7:34pm

Welcome to the wonderful world of contradiction! Pull up a chair, sit back, relax, and don't EVER invest yourself in anything because somewhere down the line it'll all be callously rendered moot anyway!

Such is unfortunately the way of things, especially in long running videogame franchises, but usually not so much or as bad as Other M. The contradictions run deeper, but over all this is a classic example of a creative staff with little concern for the very universe they themselves created, or at least had a hand in. The alternative to that perceived callousness is ignorance, and I'm not sure which of the two is better. That said, Nintendo's never been good with long running timelines, just look at Zelda.
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ChaosWolf

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby ChaosWolf » 12.09.13 2:25am

Dear God, don't even TRY to figure out the Zelda timeline(s)... 8B

If they weren't trying to be so insistent that all things are canon and that everything was congruent, but instead permitted Other M's, well, everything, to be accepted as an AU type thing - just like any reasonable developer would - then we would NOT have these problems. :thumbsdown:

I mean, when a massive deadly space-dragon spawning from a weird Furby-looking bunny-chicken thing like some freakish alien Pokemon is the LEAST lorebreaking thing in your game, then you really oughta reconsider trying to classify it as canon. :choogle: = :ridley: = :-?
Yeah the Space Pirates and their intricate system of tube-mazes and easily-breakable Metroid containers strike fear in the hearts of the galaxy.

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby okey » 12.09.13 8:39am

At this point I feel like it's safe to say that Other M will be getting the Devil May Cry 2 treatment.

There will be an unspoken agreement between the next developer and the fanbase to pretend that the game simply never existed.

ChaosWolf

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby ChaosWolf » 12.09.13 12:02pm

At this point I feel like it's safe to say that Other M will be getting the Devil May Cry 2 treatment.

There will be an unspoken agreement between the next developer and the fanbase to pretend that the game simply never existed.
Pretty damn sure the fanbase has already decided that, and the devs just haven't caught on yet.
Yeah the Space Pirates and their intricate system of tube-mazes and easily-breakable Metroid containers strike fear in the hearts of the galaxy.

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby okey » 12.09.13 12:53pm

I'm pretty sure that Retro Studios 'gets it'.

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Zevroid » 12.09.13 5:16pm

Retro might, but Sakamoto may very well not. But with any luck, he won't be allowed to write the story again.

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Xerkxes » 12.09.13 11:51pm

I think he very well does.

Probably why anything he's doing is kept extremely quiet right about now.
at least as far as I'm aware.

Though if he was, writing the story would be fine... so long has DOESN'T have complete control, and there's someone else who can veto, edit, etc.

I still think a good chunk of Other M could have been salvaged with a drastic change of dialogue, at least to make it not SO crappy.
but in a strange sense, that idea might do the series some hard. one atrociously bad game might be better than a medicore game no one would remember. negative publicity can have it's own boons, even if the cons greatly outweigh them.
Xerkxes: "Makes you wonder why Samus just didn't take one of the Crystals with her, and constantly charge it with the light beam while using it as a God damned +5 Brilliant Energy Spear of Smite-Ing "

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Apothem » 12.10.13 12:48am

For a series to last 25+ years and only have one real stinker of a title is nothing short of amazing. I can't think of another long running series that when taken in it's entirety could even come close to making the same claim. My one major concern is that with the franchises declining sales and Other M's terrible reception that Nintendo may well abandon it entirely like so many others. The sooner we get another game the sooner we can forget this one happened and move one. Otherwise we as a fanbase will be left to perpetually dwell on Other M's failure, and as much as I may dislike the game I don't believe it deserves to hated forever. Once we have something new I believe we'll all be a little more understanding of Other M, if for no other reason than that most of us will cease to care.
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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Hawk's Eye » 12.12.13 5:36am

Yknow withOther M......god that game makes my head hurt anymore lol


I want Retro to come back and fix the wobbly wobbly timely wimey of the francise.

But i want them do something interesting involving Samus....and no more of those "hunt for 9000 artifacts" bullshit scenarios. give Samus more depth and emotion. Just dont do it wrong with so many wrong things like Other M did.
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ChaosWolf

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby ChaosWolf » 12.21.13 8:02pm

I think he very well does.

Probably why anything he's doing is kept extremely quiet right about now.
at least as far as I'm aware.

Though if he was, writing the story would be fine... so long has DOESN'T have complete control, and there's someone else who can veto, edit, etc.

I still think a good chunk of Other M could have been salvaged with a drastic change of dialogue, at least to make it not SO crappy.
but in a strange sense, that idea might do the series some hard. one atrociously bad game might be better than a medicore game no one would remember. negative publicity can have it's own boons, even if the cons greatly outweigh them.
As I understand it, the problem with OM's writing wasn't wholly in the writing itself, but partly in the localization - Japanese and American cultures are quite different, and having stuff not synch up can sometimes be a make-or-break situation, especially in matters of voicework.

For example, in OM, many of Samus' lines were delivered flatly, which led her to seeming emotionless and robotic. In Japan, it is seen as a respectable personal strength to be able to dismiss one's personal emotions and focus wholly on the task at hand, and the calm, stoic, yet assertive manner of speaking resulting from this is an admirable trait that they would see Samus as having. However, in America, we tend to be very driven and embrace our emotions full-tilt, with it showing on our faces and sounding in our voices clearly and forcefully... so the English version retaining the calm and stoic delivery of the Japanese version makes it feel weak and flat, because Americans are used to someone's assertiveness coming through with their emotions, not their lack of emotion, and the cultural difference is something that is incapable of being translated.
Yeah the Space Pirates and their intricate system of tube-mazes and easily-breakable Metroid containers strike fear in the hearts of the galaxy.

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Xerkxes » 12.22.13 2:18am

I think he very well does.

Probably why anything he's doing is kept extremely quiet right about now.
at least as far as I'm aware.

Though if he was, writing the story would be fine... so long has DOESN'T have complete control, and there's someone else who can veto, edit, etc.

I still think a good chunk of Other M could have been salvaged with a drastic change of dialogue, at least to make it not SO crappy.
but in a strange sense, that idea might do the series some hard. one atrociously bad game might be better than a medicore game no one would remember. negative publicity can have it's own boons, even if the cons greatly outweigh them.
As I understand it, the problem with OM's writing wasn't wholly in the writing itself, but partly in the localization - Japanese and American cultures are quite different, and having stuff not synch up can sometimes be a make-or-break situation, especially in matters of voicework.

For example, in OM, many of Samus' lines were delivered flatly, which led her to seeming emotionless and robotic. In Japan, it is seen as a respectable personal strength to be able to dismiss one's personal emotions and focus wholly on the task at hand, and the calm, stoic, yet assertive manner of speaking resulting from this is an admirable trait that they would see Samus as having. However, in America, we tend to be very driven and embrace our emotions full-tilt, with it showing on our faces and sounding in our voices clearly and forcefully... so the English version retaining the calm and stoic delivery of the Japanese version makes it feel weak and flat, because Americans are used to someone's assertiveness coming through with their emotions, not their lack of emotion, and the cultural difference is something that is incapable of being translated.
There are Issues beyond just the writings, even the events are... poor and transcend words.

while the dialogue was weak itself, I know the Japanese are very different even in their flow of conversation goes, that much I can forgive, but that isn't the gripe most people have with Other M, it's how BAD the story is.

-Like Adam "putting Samus, the strong Lone wolf operative who had a history of disliking orders, in her place" with but a glance.
-Samus not activating Varia suit until ordered too. (or other defensive/mobility gear, but the Varia suit strikes as the dumbest without pier)
-Plot lines followed for long portions of the game end off screen.
-Samus' virtually unexplained reaction to Ridley, a fact ONLY avid fans would know, which many of us argue whether it's even a justified reaction given her history), and the games presentation gives no insight to what exactly happened.
-and possibly more if I dug a little more into my memory.
it's not just the spoken dialogue that's bad, the games events are screwy even without talking awkward dialogue.

Samus fails to achieve anything important in the game.

Adam's the one that kills the metroids (in a rather retarded fashion that I'm sure could have been done without his sacrifice had he used his "genius mind" to come up with.)
MB kills the Deleter.
Anthony stops MB from reaching GF space.
Madaline Stops MB's Rampage.
Anthony was the one too Keep Madaline from Falling into the wrong hands.

Those are ALL the most important events in the game, sure, without her most of that stuff (if not all) would have not come to pass, but she's still playing second banana in ALL the important roles/events that occur in the game, she is not the hero in this game despite her efforts.


Other M has many GAPING and BLEEDING flaws, awkward dialogue generated through cultural differences was the milder of them.
Xerkxes: "Makes you wonder why Samus just didn't take one of the Crystals with her, and constantly charge it with the light beam while using it as a God damned +5 Brilliant Energy Spear of Smite-Ing "

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Big Guy » 01.12.14 10:23pm

Not to mention when Samus says what she did AS SHE'S DOING IT ON SCREEN. Why say "I recounted the details of what brought me there" when you could just have the actual character say "I got a distress beacon". Not only is that quicker, but it makes more narrative sense.
If it weren't Metroid no one would care.
But yeah, Other M doesn't fit anywhere in the canon, it completely disregards any events and universe building that occurred before its release. It should honestly just be removed. What's really weird is that I completely used to be against that.
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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby KazerBeam » 04.21.14 2:25am

LOL, just felt like mentioning this: If Samus had the Scan Visor, doesn't that mean she would've know MB was an Android?
Looking for ways to glitch Metroid Games into oblivion.
This makes me remember when Samus didn't talk and there were dinosaurs and black and white TV
I accidentally Zebes. Was that dangerous?
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Varia31

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Re: Other M: Canonically impossible?

Postby Varia31 » 04.21.14 6:25am

I guess in "the true Metroid canon", Samus may not have it. Good question though. If she had the Scan Visor, I would have scanned to make sure she was what she said she was.

On another "LOL" note, I can't help but laugh when those Federation troopers tell Samus "don't move!" And point their guns at her. In my mind, I'm always thinking "PLEASE. Don't even pretend you're in Samus' league!"

So apparently in this canon, grunts think they can take Samus. SAMUS. Who is (or was) pretty much a juggernaut in her own universe, and has an incredible reputation for her thought-to-be-impossible accomplishments. Cute.
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