For discussing ideas and thoughts on the Metroid franchise in general.
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SA-X

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by SA-X » 08.29.11 4:52pm
Now, I was just wondering about how Samus Aran is percieved as a breakthrough for female characters in video games, considering how she's the main protagonist of a successful video game series who isn't hypersexualized, a female video game character who didn't rely on a man to save her, etc.
But is Samus really as nonsexualized as we think? I mean, in various Metroid games, if you get the fastest endings, she strips down to a skin-tight bikini or leotard. This is undeniably fan service, as the faster you complete the game, the more she strips down. Something of a reward for completing the game so fast.
Although, for the most of the game, she's in her power suit doing her business, it seems that no video game heroine can ever be completely nonsexualized, if not even one of the most empowered woman in the video game industry is exempt from serving as masturbatory material, and even if it's only at the end of the game, it's used as fanservice reward for completing the game fast enough. And I hear that her personality in Other M hasn't been well-recieved either.
What are your thoughts?
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Ridley11

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by Ridley11 » 08.29.11 6:13pm
The faster you go the faster she goes?
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Qazz777

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by Qazz777 » 08.29.11 8:31pm
I don't think that is what the ending means, I'm pretty sure its just a tradition, from the first game. just like the ending escape sequences.
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Apothem

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by Apothem » 08.30.11 2:58am
The endings are, or at least were, intended to be fanservice, plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with pandering to your demographic, and you never saw more than what she was under her suit. Shoot ahead and now we see even less, which ironically equals more. Samus' "popularity" didn't truly skyrocket until Zero Mission introduced the Zero Suit: She technically reveals nothing, and yet it drives the fanboys wild. She's also a woman in pique physical form and that's naturally attractive. There's nothing wrong or sexist about pretty Heroes or Heroines, it's when they offer nothing more than their sexuality that it falls apart and becomes cliched.
I would venture to say that in Other M Nintendo (read: Sakamoto) pushed Samus' sexuality too far. The limits for such are not universal, they are unique to each character, and Samus is not an inherently "sexual" character. She is a warrior first, a woman second and anything else a distant third, never seeming to conform to traditional standards of beauty. Fusion first changed this, with her more standard anime appearance, Zero Mission even more so, but Other M took it to far with the high heels and... accentuated physical features. Yoshio Sakamoto and Team Ninja intentionally sexualized Samus' appearance, which isn't inherently wrong, but they did so in an inappropriate manner. There's little to nothing practical about her appearance in Other M, and for an individual who subsists by regularly risking her life, one would expect her to conform to a rigid standard of practicality and efficiency. All bets are off concerning her free time, I personally don't care how she may dress for a night on the town, but for her profession and the work it entails, there have to be standards. As I've argued before, Sakamoto simply wasn't respecting Samus as a character, in more ways than one, and debatably weakened her character, if only temporary.
The point I'm trying to make is that Samus can look good without having to be a veritable super model and other Heroes and Heroines can conform to traditional or non-traditional beauty standards without it being a matter of sexism. It all comes down to whether or not it's appropriate for the character in question, in which case one must examine the context of the character.
The last metroid is in captivity. All's well in the galaxy.
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KingBroly

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by KingBroly » 08.30.11 9:21am
Here's a question: Let's say Other M dialed down Samus' assets, ditched the heels, and for the sake of this argument, got rid of the mole. Would you say Samus was overly sexualized in Other M because of the content of the game by removing those features?
My guess would have to be that she was.
Even the strongest of people can have their faith broken. Mine has.
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Apothem

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by Apothem » 08.30.11 9:36am
I think we're confusing the term here: Sexualizing typically refers to accentuating one's sexual nature, which can itself mean many things, here it more or less refers to Samus as a sex symbol. Nonsexualization would mean playing down her sex appeal. This is most commonly done visually, since most games can't be bothered with a coherent script, let alone one that can actually humanizes it's characters. With or without the visual "enhancements" made to Samus in Other M, the story remains the same. No part of it relies on Samus' sexual nature or appearance, especially when she spends the vast majority of her time stuffed in her Power Suit. And really, I can live with how Team Ninja portrayed her appearance, just ditch those ridiculous heels.
The last metroid is in captivity. All's well in the galaxy.
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Angel of fire

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by Angel of fire » 08.30.11 12:55pm
I didn't really notice any "enhancements" in Other M that weren't in other games involving the zero suit. If anything, they sort of toned it down. Look at Brawl. That suit was extremely tight.
MZM Hard mode 15% status: Complete 
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YamI

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by YamI » 08.30.11 1:07pm
She was still boobalicious in Brawl, from what I thought. Other M it's like she got Breast implants over Breast implants. But sexualized? Probably not as much as "we" think. Same thing goes for her ass in Other M too. Again, not a clue why they would do that cause when I saw the intro part I was like. I'm all for shrinking them a tiny bit, so they aren't so overbaring with the suit on.
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FacelessGriffin

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by FacelessGriffin » 08.30.11 3:44pm
Here's a question: Let's say Other M dialed down Samus' assets, ditched the heels, and for the sake of this argument, got rid of the mole. Would you say Samus was overly sexualized in Other M because of the content of the game by removing those features?
My guess would have to be that she was.
If we are going to start another f*cking arguement about Other M and it's interpretation about Samus' character here, this topic might as well die right now. On topic, call me crazy, but am I the only one who finds SSBB's Samus appearance more sexualized than Other M's appearance? While Other M's Samus, aside from her huge... tracks of land and those , generally is atleast somewhat loosely grounded in reality. SSBB's Samus has an in comparison more implausible Barbie doll physique, mirroring the really sad image of beauty being about thinness in our current society, which makes her... tracks of land stand out more, not helped by the fact how well the Zero Suit seems to "cup" that part of her body. Plus is the fact that Samus' behind is actually outlined by the suit, whereas in Other M it was just really skin tight. The heels are a whole another issue, though. Just my two cents on the matter.
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Trishbot

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by Trishbot » 08.30.11 4:27pm
I do think Samus is sexualized. Girl gamers sort of accept that even the best representations of us in games can and WILL get sexualized, no matter if you're an amazing warrior like Samus, a conservatively dressed fighter like Chun-Li, a girl-next-door like Alex Vance, or even a blue alien fox like Kyrstal. It just happens.
But... some games are more overt about it than others. Even with the Metroid series, sometimes Samus's "fanservice" moments can come across as innocent, while others are pretty sexist. In Prime 1, you never even see anything but Samus's face, and that's IF you do a good job beating the game and scanning everything. Even Metroid 1 and Super Metroid showed a Samus that rocked a rather muscular (if pixelated) body that didn't have humongous breasts.
But then you have some moments (mostly from the most recent games) that slap you in the face with "she's a sexy woman! LOOK!" Whether that's the zero-suit moment from Zero Mission (yeah, that part of the game sucked), Samus stripping every time she powered up in Smash Bros (and Nintendo refuses to listen to my requests that Link start doing the same), and Other M's heavy, heavy pandering, with zero-suit shots, breast implants, and camera angles that even porn directors wouldn't use for fear of feeling "dirty", Samus's recent portrayals skew heavily towards the "female" part of the "female warrior" demographic.
Maybe I'm weird (and as a girl, I don't get it), but I found her in Prime 1 to be SEXIER because of how much restraint was shown and how much was left to the imagination. It's the same reason I think Hilde is sexier than Ivy in Soul Calibur or Chun-Li is hotter than Cammy. Believe it or not, you CAN be beautiful and sexy without resorting to skin-tight spandex, camel toe, huge boobs, and lots of skin. It's weird how few male-minded game developers realize that outside of Valve.

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MaiAriSquee

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by MaiAriSquee » 08.30.11 7:51pm
I find myself not caring so much about Samus anymore, and I'd say the seed that bore that fruit was Samus's treatment in Zero Mission. After that I just sort of got used to Nintendo portraying her as an 18 yr old spandex idol, realizing there was nothing I could do to change it. The Samus I had in my head can romp around as much as she wants, but canonically she's gone. 
 Satch wrote:What does she think Metroid is? A porno? Does she know it's Alien with Crayola crayons?
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Zeroº

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by Zeroº » 08.30.11 11:53pm
If it makes you feel any better, I never really thought of Samus as being all that sexualized. It has more to do with a thought pattern along these lines:
1. You see more skin the faster you beat the game and/or with a better item collection rate.
2. Doing so would mean that Samus has to run around at top speeds all the time, with nary a moment to rest.
3. Doing the above would make someone incredibly sweaty and smelly to begin with, add to that the fact that she's in an airtight suit of armour, and you have a perfect recipe for smelliest, sweatiest person ever recorded.
4. Stripping at the end of the game isn't a reward for the player, it's a reward for Samus. She's taking that hot, stuffy Power Suit off and airing it out. We just happen to be catching her on the way to the shower to wash all that nasty stank off. (Just look at the end of the credits in RoS: she's running, for Pete's sake!)
There's nothing sexual about any of that, it's all disgusting and filthy. Especially when you factor in the Zero Suit that they've forced upon her in the latest games. Ask any of the cosplayers 'round these parts and they'll tell you that a full-body latex (or whatever it's made of) suit would be murder at nearly any temperature, let alone under a frickin' suit of armour.
 X-Ray Scope Acquired!
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kronoridley

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by kronoridley » 08.31.11 3:12am
I always have, and always will think of, Samus as a non-sexualized character. In my opinion what a character wearing doesn't always affect a character being sexualized or not. An excellent example of this would be Black Rock Shooter. All she wears is an open up jacket, a bra, and short shorts, but this was all done for the sake of style, not sexuality. She never does anything provocative, and the camera stays were it is at. In fact, she is so respectrd, that you don't hit any perverted fanart after googling her till you reach at the very least page 13. That is unheard of among fictional female characters. The zero suit is basically a jump suit. We see them all the time in different franchises across different forms of media, and thre is nothing wrong with them. I mean, what else is she supposed to wear under that big suit? Also, as for people's compaints about her portrayal in ZM: I think Sakamoto just wanted as to play as Samus outside of the suit for the first time, like riding the Landmaster in StarFox 64. As for Other M: I still didn't find her sexualized. Sure a few certain physical aspects have been slightly altered (such as her eyelashes), but to be fair their alterations were slightly above the "average", not "natural" size. They also didn't go anywhere with these alterations. Heels? A little weird, but personally I think they did it for style, nit sexualization (albeit a rather dumb style). Was her character sexualized? Absolutely not. Like FacelessGriffin pointed out, Other M's story is kinda like a "bad day". Samus is affected by what happened in Super and what happened right after, and is trying to deal with it, which she successfully does by the end of the game. As for the older endings, while I found the first "best" ending rather sexualized, I thought the rest were fine. Brawl? That game is a crossover. Crossovers are NEVER accurate.
 Schrau wrote:Bear in mind that most Metroid games (especially the Primes) are survival horror.
At least from the perspective of the Space Pirates.
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ANGRY2011

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by ANGRY2011 » 08.31.11 8:15pm
Trishbot wrote:I do think Samus is sexualized. Girl gamers sort of accept that even the best representations of us in games can and WILL get sexualized, no matter if you're an amazing warrior like Samus, a conservatively dressed fighter like Chun-Li, a girl-next-door like Alex Vance, or even a blue alien fox like Kyrstal. It just happens.
But... some games are more overt about it than others. Even with the Metroid series, sometimes Samus's "fanservice" moments can come across as innocent, while others are pretty sexist. In Prime 1, you never even see anything but Samus's face, and that's IF you do a good job beating the game and scanning everything. Even Metroid 1 and Super Metroid showed a Samus that rocked a rather muscular (if pixelated) body that didn't have humongous breasts.
But then you have some moments (mostly from the most recent games) that slap you in the face with "she's a sexy woman! LOOK!" Whether that's the zero-suit moment from Zero Mission (yeah, that part of the game sucked), Samus stripping every time she powered up in Smash Bros (and Nintendo refuses to listen to my requests that Link start doing the same), and Other M's heavy, heavy pandering, with zero-suit shots, breast implants, and camera angles that even porn directors wouldn't use for fear of feeling "dirty", Samus's recent portrayals skew heavily towards the "female" part of the "female warrior" demographic.
Maybe I'm weird (and as a girl, I don't get it), but I found her in Prime 1 to be SEXIER because of how much restraint was shown and how much was left to the imagination. It's the same reason I think Hilde is sexier than Ivy in Soul Calibur or Chun-Li is hotter than Cammy. Believe it or not, you CAN be beautiful and sexy without resorting to skin-tight spandex, camel toe, huge boobs, and lots of skin. It's weird how few male-minded game developers realize that outside of Valve.
I agree with Trishbot. Although I'm not a girl, it seems fairly easy to see that all female video game heroines have reached the point where they are in some way sexualized, unless presented in some ridiculous fashion to make them appear as UNsexy as possible. Even perfectly honest attempts to make characters pretty much "average" (i.e. Alex Vance) wind up failing in the face of many fans (or sometimes the industry itself) attempting to sexualize their portrayal, be it through simple discussion topics on gaming boards about "Who is the sexiest game girl", highly sexual fan art that gets plastered all over sites like DeviantArt, or images in magazines and reviews that accentuate the sexual aspects of the character. On the other hand, I think that in the early days Samus fought this off pretty well. A single fanservice shot at the end of a game does not indicate much more than pandering to your supposed audience. Although it is saddening to see that Nintendo has opted to push her into a more sexualized role. Beginning with Fusion giving her a more "sleek-sexy-anime" look than the muscular bounty hunter from Super, and moving through to the very obvious shots in Other M, Nintendo seems to have mostly forgotten about keeping gaming's first lady unsexualized, even if they would never admit it under their "family-friendly" image they believe they have to keep for their main properties. On a note to KronoRidley, while you may or may not find the "enhancements" made to Samus sexualizing in a large way, they certainly were played up in the cinematics by the camera angles and other techniques. Even disregarding the physical aspects, Other M focused a lot around Samus as a woman and mother, so it still moved towards portrayal of our "Female Warrior" Samus as a "FEMALE Warrior", and not a "Female WARRIOR", to borrow again from Trishbot. And lastly, speaking directly to Trishbot, I found Prime 1's image of Samus to be the most compelling, if not truly the most sexy. Sexy for me is Fusion. But I'd rather have a compelling Samus, who is normal but COULD be sexy, and seems a more believable character, rather then being put in your face as sexy. My ultimate piece of Metroid swag would be a statue of Prime's ending, Samus with her helmet in one hand, just looking without any visible expression at the completion of her mission. She's the most believable bounty hunter to me. Good luck ever getting a statue like that though. 
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Trishbot

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by Trishbot » 09.01.11 12:05am
ANGRY2011 wrote:And lastly, speaking directly to Trishbot, I found Prime 1's image of Samus to be the most compelling, if not truly the most sexy. Sexy for me is Fusion. But I'd rather have a compelling Samus, who is normal but COULD be sexy, and seems a more believable character, rather then being put in your face as sexy. My ultimate piece of Metroid swag would be a statue of Prime's ending, Samus with her helmet in one hand, just looking without any visible expression at the completion of her mission. She's the most believable bounty hunter to me. Good luck ever getting a statue like that though. 
Thanks for the shout-out, and welcome to the boards! And, agreed. I'd buy a statue like that. I did the next best thing and bought some Samus Aran art from someone I knew (Crimson Jassic) that captured the same mood.  I proudly have this hanging in my bedroom.
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