Yoshio Sakamoto

by **Chris** » 11.01.11 3:57am

Or just do away with the silly 1st person view.

by **KingBroly** » 11.01.11 3:07pm

And if you did that, you'd have to change every boss fight in the game, as well as a few other segments.

by **Chris** » 11.01.11 3:43pm

Good, standing still during a boss battle to shoot missiles was crackers.

by **KingBroly** » 11.01.11 7:39pm

You're really missing the point I'm trying to convey.

Removing the first person mechanic from Other M means you'd probably have to start over in a lot of areas, boss fights included. By doing so you'd have to change how certain areas, mechanics and boss fights work, including ones involving the Wave Beam, the Ridley fight and the Pixel Hunts (I'd imagine they'd be replaced by cutscenes). It's a lot harder than saying 'this sucks, remove it.' In reality, you'd probably have to remove...30% of the game because you dropped that mechanic, and that's not including the pixel hunts, either.

by **Obviously** » 11.02.11 12:38pm

So? Retro had to drop their entire design for Metroid Prime when Miyamoto told them to make it first person. Regardless, I don't think Chris is at all suggesting that it's easy to just pull an element like this out of a game, he's just saying he would've preferred that it wasn't there.

by **Chris** » 11.03.11 3:59am

KingBroly wrote:You're really missing the point I'm trying to convey.

Removing the first person mechanic from Other M means you'd probably have to start over in a lot of areas, boss fights included. By doing so you'd have to change how certain areas, mechanics and boss fights work, including ones involving the Wave Beam, the Ridley fight and the Pixel Hunts (I'd imagine they'd be replaced by cutscenes). It's a lot harder than saying 'this sucks, remove it.' In reality, you'd probably have to remove...30% of the game because you dropped that mechanic, and that's not including the pixel hunts, either.

Things get cut or changed in games all the time, if the game is better for it, it doesn't matter if they have to rework the game, a good developer knows this, also god forbid if the pixel hunts were removed!!! (aka the most tedious part of the game).

by **KingBroly** » 11.06.11 2:42am

Do you think they had time to cut it and rework it though? I kinda doubt they did given they're working on DOA5 and NG3 at the moment, both of which are supposed to come out next year. I'm pretty sure both of those games being in development had a role in Other M turning out the way it did. Also, if Team Ninja was a Great Developer, they would've put their foot down at some point and told Sakamoto to piss off to a lot of what he was doing, which is something the Iwata Asks stuff kinda implies didn't happen for a few key areas.

by **Trishbot** » 11.18.11 3:19pm

KingBroly wrote:Do you think they had time to cut it and rework it though? I kinda doubt they did given they're working on DOA5 and NG3 at the moment, both of which are supposed to come out next year. I'm pretty sure both of those games being in development had a role in Other M turning out the way it did. Also, if Team Ninja was a Great Developer, they would've put their foot down at some point and told Sakamoto to piss off to a lot of what he was doing, which is something the Iwata Asks stuff kinda implies didn't happen for a few key areas.

In the game industry, our mantra with my co-workers is to follow the doctrine of Shigeru Miyamoto. "A delayed game can become great. A rushed game will be terrible forever."

If Other M needed more work to make it a better game, or something in the game was not working well, they can and should have delayed it. The fact that they didn't either implies two things: they're lazy, or they genuinely thought the first-person pixel hunts and missile shooting made the game better. Given how ambitious, if misguided, the game was, I lean more towards incompetence in this matter. I think they genuinely thought the Wiimote only control scheme was great and the first-person segments well designed. They were wrong, but that's what they thought at the time.

I'd like to think if they knew those elements were bad, they would have delayed the game and either improved them or eliminated them entirely. Resident Evil 4 went through how many iterations before they found the "sweet spot"? Fixing those parts of the game certainly wouldn't have made Other M the next classic Metroid, but it would have alleviated some of the most frustrating, pointless, and ill-advised sections of the game.

Chris Posts: 1413 Joined: 12.16.10 5:07am Location: Leeds Website	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by Chris » 11.01.11 3:57am Or just do away with the silly 1st person view.
KingBroly Posts: 2284 Joined: 10.02.10 1:58am Location: Tenth of the way from Crazy	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by KingBroly » 11.01.11 3:07pm And if you did that, you'd have to change every boss fight in the game, as well as a few other segments. Even the strongest of people can have their faith broken. Mine has.
Chris Posts: 1413 Joined: 12.16.10 5:07am Location: Leeds Website	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by Chris » 11.01.11 3:43pm Good, standing still during a boss battle to shoot missiles was crackers.
KingBroly Posts: 2284 Joined: 10.02.10 1:58am Location: Tenth of the way from Crazy	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by KingBroly » 11.01.11 7:39pm You're really missing the point I'm trying to convey. Removing the first person mechanic from Other M means you'd probably have to start over in a lot of areas, boss fights included. By doing so you'd have to change how certain areas, mechanics and boss fights work, including ones involving the Wave Beam, the Ridley fight and the Pixel Hunts (I'd imagine they'd be replaced by cutscenes). It's a lot harder than saying 'this sucks, remove it.' In reality, you'd probably have to remove...30% of the game because you dropped that mechanic, and that's not including the pixel hunts, either. Even the strongest of people can have their faith broken. Mine has.
Obviously Posts: 19 Joined: 10.21.11 3:24pm	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by Obviously » 11.02.11 12:38pm So? Retro had to drop their entire design for Metroid Prime when Miyamoto told them to make it first person. Regardless, I don't think Chris is at all suggesting that it's easy to just pull an element like this out of a game, he's just saying he would've preferred that it wasn't there.
Chris Posts: 1413 Joined: 12.16.10 5:07am Location: Leeds Website	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by Chris » 11.03.11 3:59am KingBroly wrote:You're really missing the point I'm trying to convey. Removing the first person mechanic from Other M means you'd probably have to start over in a lot of areas, boss fights included. By doing so you'd have to change how certain areas, mechanics and boss fights work, including ones involving the Wave Beam, the Ridley fight and the Pixel Hunts (I'd imagine they'd be replaced by cutscenes). It's a lot harder than saying 'this sucks, remove it.' In reality, you'd probably have to remove...30% of the game because you dropped that mechanic, and that's not including the pixel hunts, either. Things get cut or changed in games all the time, if the game is better for it, it doesn't matter if they have to rework the game, a good developer knows this, also god forbid if the pixel hunts were removed!!! (aka the most tedious part of the game).
KingBroly Posts: 2284 Joined: 10.02.10 1:58am Location: Tenth of the way from Crazy	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by KingBroly » 11.06.11 2:42am Do you think they had time to cut it and rework it though? I kinda doubt they did given they're working on DOA5 and NG3 at the moment, both of which are supposed to come out next year. I'm pretty sure both of those games being in development had a role in Other M turning out the way it did. Also, if Team Ninja was a Great Developer, they would've put their foot down at some point and told Sakamoto to piss off to a lot of what he was doing, which is something the Iwata Asks stuff kinda implies didn't happen for a few key areas. Even the strongest of people can have their faith broken. Mine has.
Trishbot Posts: 243 Joined: 11.15.10 3:31pm	Re: Yoshio Sakamoto by Trishbot » 11.18.11 3:19pm KingBroly wrote:Do you think they had time to cut it and rework it though? I kinda doubt they did given they're working on DOA5 and NG3 at the moment, both of which are supposed to come out next year. I'm pretty sure both of those games being in development had a role in Other M turning out the way it did. Also, if Team Ninja was a Great Developer, they would've put their foot down at some point and told Sakamoto to piss off to a lot of what he was doing, which is something the Iwata Asks stuff kinda implies didn't happen for a few key areas. In the game industry, our mantra with my co-workers is to follow the doctrine of Shigeru Miyamoto. "A delayed game can become great. A rushed game will be terrible forever." If Other M needed more work to make it a better game, or something in the game was not working well, they can and should have delayed it. The fact that they didn't either implies two things: they're lazy, or they genuinely thought the first-person pixel hunts and missile shooting made the game better. Given how ambitious, if misguided, the game was, I lean more towards incompetence in this matter. I think they genuinely thought the Wiimote only control scheme was great and the first-person segments well designed. They were wrong, but that's what they thought at the time. I'd like to think if they knew those elements were bad, they would have delayed the game and either improved them or eliminated them entirely. Resident Evil 4 went through how many iterations before they found the "sweet spot"? Fixing those parts of the game certainly wouldn't have made Other M the next classic Metroid, but it would have alleviated some of the most frustrating, pointless, and ill-advised sections of the game.

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