If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

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Obviously

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby Obviously » 10.23.11 5:12pm

Chris wrote:
kronoridley wrote:I am getting sick and tired of people complaining about the artifacts.............

You could sidetrack them very early on in the game! It removed all elements of tediousness and made the main adventure even more fun! If the game allows you to do that, than it is your fault that it "slowed the pace of the game" because you didn't bother to collect them as part of the main adventure! Christ!

*tries to calm down*


Except you don't know this the first time you play...


^ This.

I'm not saying it kills the game for me or that it's a big problem now that I know I have to collect them but the first time I played I hit the artifact statue part and discovered, "you want me me to what now?" It was a way of artificially inflating the game length and was one of the few poor design choices in an otherwise excellent adventure.

I think it's a minor hitch, but it's the only thing I can think of that I didn't completely and totally love about Metroid Prime which is my favorite of the series.

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby ddddd » 10.23.11 8:55pm

Ether101 Prime wrote:
ddddd wrote:This makes no sense at all. They outsmarted the pirates with their artifacts by decades before they arrived to the planet. They imprisioned the source of the phazon to make its corruption minimal. They knew a more capable combatant was going to come and prepared the planet for that...


Except that there's nothing to suggest that the Chozo thought that Samus was a more "capable combatant" let alone proof that she's better then all the Chozo there combined.

The can foresee the future, vaguely, but they have seen enough to know that a savior will come. They know that they can't erradicate phazon, but they know this savior can. Because of this they set up the entire planet to help her and increase her chances. They even knew the pirates would not be able to decipher nor destroy the seal (original ntsc version)

Ether101 Prime wrote:After the meteor was sealed in floating rock why wouldn't the Chozo got the extra mile and destroy it? They already have it at their mercy.

Because they cant or couldnt destroy it. We don't know if they tried or not, but we do know that they decided to do this. And as far as Tallon IV concerns, it worked.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
The GFed was stupid enough to not check Zebes, DURING MORE THAN 20 YEARS. And since all of the planets in the system are basically wastelands with mortal ambient for most foreign living things, is not that unreasonable to think of the Feds not bothering much there.


What 20 year period are you talking about? And we do know that the GFeds did check Zebes as that's how Samus got that ship back.

The timaframe between the pirate's raid on zebes until Super Metroid. If the feds did actually went there to recover her ship (the info about the ship surviving sammy's mission on zebes was written before ZM was released, so I have my doubts about how canon it is) , then it seems it was all they did.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
Im hoping you have more reasons than that flashy short cutscene do you?


That one poorly thought out cutscene is a far better reason for calling her an idiot compared to what some people on this and other sites use.

It is just a flashy cutscene, it has little value other than explain why she lost the items. You are drawing a conclusion from one cutscene.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
Clearly the Feds liked bullets so much that they kept using them for many years after, when they decided to send 6 men to explore an abandoned station armed with conventional rifles, and then more soldiers went into said station with more bullets to kill a certain android.


You seem to not understand, Sakamoto has made it clear that he's trying not to contradict the Prime games. If Retro had actually taken the time to do their research then maybe they would have noticed that the Feddies used more powerful weapons then they gave them in Echoes.

Sakamoto has shown little concern about the primes, he doesn't care a single bit about them. If he chose to have soldiers using ballistic weapons it has absolutely nothing to do with the primes, as their inclusion doesnt make them any more canon. It shows however that ballistic weapons (which we dont know anything about) are effective in the future alongside with energy and explosive weapons (which the Anhur crew DOES posses as well)

Ether101 Prime wrote:
They have been studing phazon for more than 3 years, it is obvious that they must have developed new and more powerful tech as of then thanks to that.


Except we're not talking about phazon based tech.

Phazon has everything to do with the series. Without it, the pirates would never have become the threat the were in corruption.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
And it is blatanty obvious that they ARE NOT more powerful than the Feds yet, they are a very small science team on Aether that even didnt attacked the stranded GF Anhur team.


It's blatantly obvious that they are by the sheer virtue that the Ing choose not to capture them alive.

The local science team may or may not be more powerful than the stranded Anhur crew, but that doesnt change the fact that he pirates on Aether wouldn't be able to defend themselves from a full scale assault, they are a small crew (they were trying hard to not be detected and requested extra troops when they couldnt handle the ing). The Ing also killed their share of pirates too, and even then it doesnt matter much as they can posses dead bodies anyway.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
It is perfectly posible for one man in the galaxy to be that naive. There are other soldiers that do know very well about that, including the one that just told this guy about it.


No, it was the entire unite that didn't believe that Samus was real. That's why its implied that the lady kept trying to convince the rest of her squad that Samus was real.

Gfed data logs belong to the single trooper that was wearing that suit, these are personal entries. The log never mentions that others dont believe this, only that one guy. And again, not everybody will believe it even if it is official, it happens.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
Well, having studying phazon for 4 years by now and with unlimited resources can help... The Feds were able to make fully functional PED suits in a few months of study (most worked flawlesly, four of them not so much). And the FEDs still were able to obliterate all the ofensive forces on the Homeworld and Norion.


In Corruption, the Fed Marines are like the SWAT team from CSI: Miami, completely useless unless the protagonist is there to guide them.

The feds that have PEDs are quite capable of taking pirates out, but again, due to small resources, knowledge, and time, not every trooper can be equipped with them.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
There is nothing to suggest that these pirates are the only ones existing in the universe.


That's why the game makes it clear that it's THE Space Pirate home world. The way the game acts as if its the only one in existence. Retro's comments on the matter doesn't help the matter either. There's a reason why Nintendo had to clear this mess up in the first place.

The game NEVER says it is the birth place of the pirates nor that it is the only homeworld they have, but I can see why people would get the wrong idea. Due to this the trilogy edition makes this clear in the art booklet, but not a single word was changed in the game data.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
Well, clearly that is not what happened in the actual story...


Except it's exactly what happened, facts where established and Retro ignored them.

And now the new facts retconed it, and what happened on the primes, Zero mission, and other m are now the new source of canon facts and override previous facts. Meaning that the actual events are what actualy happened.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
And for the record, it hasnt been stablished how much time passes since corruption to metroid 2.


But one of the things explained by Sakamoto was the reason for the Space Pirates being on the BLS. Corruption completely ignores that explanation.

What explanation? They seem to be from the bottle ship. If Sakamoto has explained why there are pirates on bsl other than being from the bottle ship, you may have to inform other fans about it.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
Yeah, Retro should have gotten a time machine so they could ask Sakamoto 5 years later how he was going to make the story of Other M...... The story of Other M didn even exist by the time Corruption launched, HOW COULD THEY KNOW WTF WAS SAKAMOTO GOING TO DO???


And that has what to do with a fact established in Fusion?

What fact? Fusion never stated that Adam was her only CO, Other M is the game that introduced that, and there was no way Retro would know that was going to be stated. And even then, Dane or 212's role are ambiguous.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
If they have, then they should have used these capabilities in Zero Mission.


Why, the two situations were completely different from one another. As dangerous as the metroids are, they're still controllable were Phazon isn't. Then there's the fact that Zebes is a Chozo plant and probably has great historical significance to the Federation.

Also by you're logic, the Feddies couldn't have bunker busters as well because their never mentioned even thou that wouldn't make a lick of sense.

Every planet in the series has historic resources. They are all valuable to the feds.

Ether101 Prime wrote:
And it is more than obvious that the Feds wouldnt want to get rid of planets (with plenty of resources to use, and doing that would end up with them losing their expensive research space stations in the process), just eliminate the threats to them.


There's this thing that some people like to call The Godzilla Threshold and the Pirates' plan would have to cross it and when that happens the singularity weapons and antimatter bombs would be authorized.

And the games have proven that they didn't need to do that. Perhaps if Samus had failed one of her missions they might as well take that option.

The point is that you can't say that something doesn't exist just because it hasn't been mentioned.

Many of your criticisms are based solely on what you see or don't in-game.

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby Ether101 Prime » 10.29.11 5:01pm

ddddd wrote:The can foresee the future, vaguely, but they have seen enough to know that a savior will come. They know that they can't erradicate phazon, but they know this savior can. Because of this they set up the entire planet to help her and increase her chances. They even knew the pirates would not be able to decipher nor destroy the seal (original ntsc version)


That right the is proof that you're wrong.

ddddd wrote:Because they cant or couldnt destroy it. We don't know if they tried or not, but we do know that they decided to do this. And as far as Tallon IV concerns, it worked.


Wrong, they could have easily destroyed it they just chose not to because Retro can't wright a believable narrative.

ddddd wrote:The timaframe between the pirate's raid on zebes until Super Metroid. If the feds did actually went there to recover her ship (the info about the ship surviving sammy's mission on zebes was written before ZM was released, so I have my doubts about how canon it is) , then it seems it was all they did.


Except its been stated that they did much more then that. Retro themselves seem to been the ones that made it clear that Feddies did in fact do recon on Zebes makes it an even bigger plot hole.

ddddd wrote:It is just a flashy cutscene, it has little value other than explain why she lost the items. You are drawing a conclusion from one cutscene.


No, it was bad writing. Samus shouldn't have lost her equipment at all. Scenes like that ruined the franchise as many invest a great amount of faith in it.

ddddd wrote:Sakamoto has shown little concern about the primes, he doesn't care a single bit about them. If he chose to have soldiers using ballistic weapons it has absolutely nothing to do with the primes, as their inclusion doesnt make them any more canon. It shows however that ballistic weapons (which we dont know anything about) are effective in the future alongside with energy and explosive weapons (which the Anhur crew DOES posses as well)


You're full of BS, Sakamoto has gone on the record saying that he was trying to not contradict them.

ddddd wrote:Phazon has everything to do with the series. Without it, the pirates would never have become the threat the were in corruption.


That has nothing to do with it, Echos made it clear that the Pirates none phazon technology was better then the Federations which is bull.

ddddd wrote:The local science team may or may not be more powerful than the stranded Anhur crew, but that doesnt change the fact that he pirates on Aether wouldn't be able to defend themselves from a full scale assault, they are a small crew (they were trying hard to not be detected and requested extra troops when they couldnt handle the ing). The Ing also killed their share of pirates too, and even then it doesnt matter much as they can posses dead bodies anyway.


It does matter because the Ing can't posses the dead the same way they can the living. This is why the Luminoth killed them selves when the Ing possed them and the reason why the possessed Trooper corpses didn't move around like the rest of the Darklings.

ddddd wrote:Gfed data logs belong to the single trooper that was wearing that suit, these are personal entries. The log never mentions that others dont believe this, only that one guy. And again, not everybody will believe it even if it is official, it happens.


You've missed the context of his log.

ddddd wrote:The feds that have PEDs are quite capable of taking pirates out, but again, due to small resources, knowledge, and time, not every trooper can be equipped with them.


You don't understand, the Galactic Federation was useless in MP3 for no reason other then

ddddd wrote:The game NEVER says it is the birth place of the pirates nor that it is the only homeworld they have, but I can see why people would get the wrong idea.


But it did say that, Retro was clearly in the wrong hear and no amount of blind denial is going to change it.

ddddd wrote:Due to this the trilogy edition makes this clear in the art booklet, but not a single word was changed in the game data.


You saying this just proves that you're a blind fanboy.

ddddd wrote:And now the new facts retconed it, and what happened on the primes, Zero mission, and other m are now the new source of canon facts and override previous facts. Meaning that the actual events are what actualy happened.


No, Retro ****ed up the story because they believe that their above doing actual research. If Retro was actually intending to retcon some of the more important I'm sure Sakamoto would have tried to stop them.

ddddd wrote:What explanation? They seem to be from the bottle ship. If Sakamoto has explained why there are pirates on bsl other than being from the bottle ship, you may have to inform other fans about it.


Right, because bunch of know it alls like yourself ever listen to people that actually have an idea as to what their talking about. In an interview, Sakamoto was asked why there were Space Pirates on BSL, if they were specimens. He basically replayed that no they were remnants of the group that the Galactic Federation defeated while Samus was on Zebes and it was their random attack on the BSL that helped cased the event to take place.

ddddd wrote:What fact? Fusion never stated that Adam was her only CO, Other M is the game that introduced that, and there was no way Retro would know that was going to be stated.


Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO...~http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid4/transcript.php

ddddd wrote:And even then, Dane or 212's role are ambiguous.


It sounded like they were giving orders to me. Those parts were they give her orders is what gives it way.

ddddd wrote:Every planet in the series has historic resources. They are all valuable to the feds.


That's conjecture, we actually understand what the importance of Zebes is.

ddddd wrote:And the games have proven that they didn't need to do that. Perhaps if Samus had failed one of her missions they might as well take that option.


No it didn't, there's nothing in MP3 that suggest that Dark Samus plan was sound or that sending Samus down to Phaaze was a better option then dropping an antimatter bomb on it.

ddddd wrote:Many of your criticisms are based solely on what you see or don't in-game.


All criticisms is based on what is and isn't in a product. There's a big difference what I'm doing and what you're doing. You think that just because there's not mention of something existing in a story means that it can't possibly exist which is wrong I'm saying that facts established about a series have to be taken into consideration and pointing out how they weren't.

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby ddddd » 10.30.11 5:32pm

ddddd wrote:Many of your criticisms are based solely on what you see or don't in-game.


All criticisms is based on what is and isn't in a product. There's a big difference what I'm doing and what you're doing. You think that just because there's not mention of something existing in a story means that it can't possibly exist which is wrong I'm saying that facts established about a series have to be taken into consideration and pointing out how they weren't.

All your criticisms are based on what you see or not in the games, not bothering to think if there is more to them than that, like you said, just because you didn't saw something it doesn't mean it didn't happen within the story seen. And in most of them you didn't even bother to refute my claims with actual facts, just opinions about what should be and others with no explanation at all, simply saying "no. youre wrong", even in things that are clearly stated within the games themselves that you simply don't want to accept. I knew there wasn't much point to continue arguing after you simply discarded the first explanation (canon btw, and not being mentioned solely by me in this topic) with no counter point at all.

I can accept the one with the fusion quote, because that one has actual source and I trully didn't know about that one (though again it is left to see if Dane and AU242 are considered COs like Adam by the storymakers, and if they did then it can be rectoned). The others are simply opinions and missunderstandings of yours that I don't think I will be able to change, specially after seeing a couple of insults and blunt denials instead of a counter point.

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby Emperor Ing » 10.30.11 6:47pm

My question is what is this argument and where is it even going
Hiroshi Mishima wrote:must be some sorta side effect of the hatchling or maybe she should stop going down on Miyamoto.
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ddddd

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby ddddd » 10.30.11 7:01pm

Emperor Ing wrote:My question is what is this argument and where is it even going

Page 7. And is not going anywhere.

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby Thunderchin » 10.31.11 6:25pm

ddddd wrote:
Emperor Ing wrote:My question is what is this argument and where is it even going

Page 7. And is not going anywhere.

I'm trapped in a wall of text and I can't get out!

Anyway, one thing I'd change: There's this one crazy-elusive expansion. I STILL can't find it, even though I can remember where all the rest are even a year out of practice, but there's one I haven't ever found in 9 years of play time.
Samus Aran wrote:Chozo Ice Beam acquired, extinguish a Girl on Fire!

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Re: If you could change ONE THING about the Prime series...

Postby Ether101 Prime » 11.06.11 12:04pm

ddddd wrote:All your criticisms are based on what you see or not in the games, not bothering to think if there is more to them than that, like you said, just because you didn't saw something it doesn't mean it didn't happen within the story seen.


No, that's what you've done. You even went so far as to say it at one point.

ddddd wrote:And in most of them you didn't even bother to refute my claims with actual facts, just opinions about what should be and others with no explanation at all, simply saying "no. youre wrong", even in things that are clearly stated within the games themselves that you simply don't want to accept.


You haven't brought up any thing that needs hard facts to dispute. I could easily point this out and give quotes of things that Retro had clearly ignored. I could put a YouTube link, an interview and a page from the manga that show that Retro clearly wrong in their belief that they're being faithful to canon. I can back up a lot of what I say with sources you on other hand can't back up anything you say at all.

ddddd wrote:I knew there wasn't much point to continue arguing after you simply discarded the first explanation (canon btw, and not being mentioned solely by me in this topic) with no counter point at all.


I've been talking about how Retro clearly ignores all previously existing information and can't write a quality story right from the start.

ddddd wrote:I can accept the one with the fusion quote, because that one has actual source and I trully didn't know about that one (though again it is left to see if Dane and AU242 are considered COs like Adam by the storymakers, and if they did then it can be rectoned). The others are simply opinions and missunderstandings of yours that I don't think I will be able to change, specially after seeing a couple of insults and blunt denials instead of a counter point.


I've point up counter points you're the one who's acting like everything I say is wrong because you don't want to face the truth. You don't seem to understand that you were the one being rude first not me.

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