paper mario series topic

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metroidsuperfan11

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paper mario series topic

Postby metroidsuperfan11 » 10.30.16 4:22pm

You can talk about the first one ttyd, spm, sticker star, color splash, something I missed if that does exist share secrets, ask questions, talk to each other or me I been doing a bunch of topics lately to try and jump start just at least a little more activity on this forum so I thought of this just now and ... yeah.

Alright well I'll be off somewhere for now discuss/ignore as the people see fit.

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby Zynux » 10.30.16 6:39pm

I've only played/beaten the First Paper Mario but for a long time I barely remembered anything of it despite it being pretty fun, had to watch a full playthrough of it. never played any other entry but I watched a playthrough of TTYD and it looked like a worthy sequel. Afterwards it seems like Paper Mario kind of lost it's identity and didn't know what it wanted to be so it relied to heavily on it's Paper aethetic for gimmicks.
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metroidsuperfan11

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby metroidsuperfan11 » 11.03.16 3:55pm

After Super Paper Mario which is a Wii title they still wanted to reach the casual's this unfortunately can no longer be achieved due to smart phones and the lack of dedication to gaming that major casuals (their target audience) have thus sticker star and color splash the 2 that came after S.P.M are aimed at the beginner casuals (the the shear drop in story difficulty) TTYD was aimed at hardcore Nintendo RPG fans which explains the increased difficulty of TTYD compared to PM it's not impossible by no means it's not dark souls I can assure you but it is harder than the first one. As for the paper gimmicks I don't know about that it seems color splash is a step in the right direction and keep in mind not every single gimmick ever is a terrible cancer to all of gaming ... just ... keep that in mind it seems people are hating gimmicks recently even when it's undeserved though its your mind whatever.

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby Zynux » 12.19.16 4:53am

Paper Mario: Color Splash producer on lack of returning NPCs, new game would feature “a different system”

I will never understand why Miyamoto wants to limit this franchise. I would get it if in the beginning it didn't do things on it's own, but this franchise started off it's own thing and now recently they started to bottleneck it into a very limited scope. This franchise only identity now is it's paper aesthetic, something before that was just a neat artistic style choice but now has dominated into it's main gimmicky of everything. Every other game it's going to be inconsistent mechanics, bouncing around all over, not knowing what it wants to be. "Mario Story" seems to be gone.
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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby Luminoth Prime » 12.19.16 2:30pm

It's a damn shame, because the paper aesthetic in Color Splash is fantastic. It looks really fun and unique, whereas The Thousand Year Door looked kind of plain. If that aesthetic could be combined with the quality stories and characters from past games, it'd make for a truly special franchise.

I think Miyamoto's line of reasoning is that he wants the games to be accessible to everyone. Having one-off characters like in past Paper Mario games could get confusing to people that have no concept of how these things work. "Why is Bowser a good guy and not the villain? Who's Grodus? Who's Dimentio? Why am I controlling these other characters, I want to play as Mario." That kind of thing. Mario is supposed to be the universal game franchise that anyone can play, after all. Unfortunately Miyamoto seems to think that good characters and storytelling aren't universally appreciated.

Miyamoto also limits the story in Zelda games, too, but not to this extreme with Paper Mario. I forget the guy's name, but there was one guy that worked on the Zelda series and snuck in some deeper storytelling in a few of the Zelda games, despite Miyamoto explicitly telling him not to, so that guy got his job transferred to somewhere else. Without that guy, some Zelda games would have much barer stories than we know today.
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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby Dartison » 12.19.16 3:20pm

It's a damn shame, because the paper aesthetic in Color Splash is fantastic. It looks really fun and unique, whereas The Thousand Year Door looked kind of plain. If that aesthetic could be combined with the quality stories and characters from past games, it'd make for a truly special franchise.

I think Miyamoto's line of reasoning is that he wants the games to be accessible to everyone. Having one-off characters like in past Paper Mario games could get confusing to people that have no concept of how these things work. "Why is Bowser a good guy and not the villain? Who's Grodus? Who's Dimentio? Why am I controlling these other characters, I want to play as Mario." That kind of thing. Mario is supposed to be the universal game franchise that anyone can play, after all. Unfortunately Miyamoto seems to think that good characters and storytelling aren't universally appreciated.

Miyamoto also limits the story in Zelda games, too, but not to this extreme with Paper Mario. I forget the guy's name, but there was one guy that worked on the Zelda series and snuck in some deeper storytelling in a few of the Zelda games, despite Miyamoto explicitly telling him not to, so that guy got his job transferred to somewhere else. Without that guy, some Zelda games would have much barer stories than we know today.
So essentially, people who don't know what a story is, new characters, and different points of view are? Its a terrible excuse, the fact is if you keep watering something down enough to be "accessible" to everyone how can you ever have anything even remotely complex?

metroidsuperfan11

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby metroidsuperfan11 » 12.19.16 6:02pm

He was going to go for straight accessibility I'm not so sure the sticker method is the best option.

As for the story in color splash I must say they're at least going in a better direction than sticker star some have said that the comedy is the best in the series and at points even surpasses ttyd and spm

sticker star has a lot of problems and little charm

color splash looks nicer, complaints from the last game were taken into consideration and some of the big ones were fixed, bosses are no longer doormats, ect.

Though I do agree there should be more complexity it is possible to make a game to complex ... at least I think.

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby Luminoth Prime » 12.19.16 6:10pm

It's a damn shame, because the paper aesthetic in Color Splash is fantastic. It looks really fun and unique, whereas The Thousand Year Door looked kind of plain. If that aesthetic could be combined with the quality stories and characters from past games, it'd make for a truly special franchise.

I think Miyamoto's line of reasoning is that he wants the games to be accessible to everyone. Having one-off characters like in past Paper Mario games could get confusing to people that have no concept of how these things work. "Why is Bowser a good guy and not the villain? Who's Grodus? Who's Dimentio? Why am I controlling these other characters, I want to play as Mario." That kind of thing. Mario is supposed to be the universal game franchise that anyone can play, after all. Unfortunately Miyamoto seems to think that good characters and storytelling aren't universally appreciated.

Miyamoto also limits the story in Zelda games, too, but not to this extreme with Paper Mario. I forget the guy's name, but there was one guy that worked on the Zelda series and snuck in some deeper storytelling in a few of the Zelda games, despite Miyamoto explicitly telling him not to, so that guy got his job transferred to somewhere else. Without that guy, some Zelda games would have much barer stories than we know today.
So essentially, people who don't know what a story is, new characters, and different points of view are? Its a terrible excuse, the fact is if you keep watering something down enough to be "accessible" to everyone how can you ever have anything even remotely complex?
Well that's not the intent. After all, Nintendo's priority is always gameplay and game design over story. That's why they can shamelessly rehash the same plots and stories over and over again and not see anything wrong with it. Super Mario Galaxy has stellar design and gameplay, but the plot is simply "Peach gets kidnapped by Bowser" once again. Legend of Zelda and Metroid get a bit further than Mario, if only because their scale and genres call for something more substantial (especially Zelda), but even those games still don't focus that much on characters and story the way other games do. Rarely do any side characters from those games cross over into other installments (e.g. no Midna in a future Zelda game).

Though Mario Galaxy also had the Rosalina side story that was very unique and well-written, but I think that was also the work of the guy I mentioned who Miyamoto kicked out of the Zelda team. And after Rosalina, I think he was further disciplined. I wish I could find where I heard this information.

Of course, the problem is that an RPG game requires better story, characters, and writing. Intelligent Systems did provide some clever humor throughout Color Splash from what I've heard, possibly to offset the lack of other creativity, but that's not enough. An RPG game by its nature needs to have a strong story and memorable characters. Nintendo seems to think they can make up for that with the gameplay gimmicks.

It's definitely not a good excuse, and it treats children like idiots that will stay children. One of my biggest issues with children's entertainment these days is that there's rarely any effort or intelligence on display. Think about all those trashy shows on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and Disney X D. There are some good ones here and there, but most of it appeals to the lowest common denominator. I played TTYD when I was 8 years old and it was totally fine. I loved the story and the characters, and appreciate them even more as an adult, just as I appreciate the good shows I watched back then, too. What I don't end up appreciating are the games and shows that don't even try.

EDIT: Found the guy. His name is Yoshiaki Koizumi. Here's an interesting interview of him explaining how he literally had to sneak stories past Miyamoto: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/
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metroidsuperfan11

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Re: paper mario series topic

Postby metroidsuperfan11 » 12.21.16 8:45pm

... So any thoughts on paper jam?


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