The world needs Metroid 5

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Infinity's End

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The world needs Metroid 5

Postby Infinity's End » 05.07.07 11:25am

Let me be the first to (bitch) post that Metroid 5 DEMANDS to be made!

Let it be known that we want:
2.5D on the DS 3DS or Wii (DS would probably sell more units)
new weapons and upgrades
STACKABLE beams
difficulty beyond Super and Fusion
A storyline that doesn't interrupt gameplay
little or no dialogue
anime cutscenes
Open enough for emergent gameplay to proliferate (like Super in which you can do far more than what the programmers originally intended.)
return of the Spider Ball and Boost Ball?

Feel free to add your own...

I know it's just a pipe dream right now, and the fact that we haven't heard anything about Metroid Dread for months makes me believe a 2D Metroid isn't really on the high-priority list over at the Big N. But I think the time has come... the world needs a Metroid 5! >.<
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Postby Insomniac By Choice » 05.08.07 11:04pm

While I'd like to see it, I have no faith in a continuance of the storyline without Gunpei. I try to forget Fusion even exists (like Alien Resurrection).

All of the things I like about the Metroid games aren't favored by the modern gameplaying audience for some reason. Well, I shouldn't say that because Shadow of the Colossus was received so well, but I like silent protagonists, bare-bones storylines and set ups, and the luxury to invent your own feelings and motivations and relationships for the characters as you play. That's why I think Metroid is the greatest fandom around, because it allows indulgence of personal interpretation.

Good gameplay is a must, but just like with the Prime games, the fact that they're good games to play doesn't help them fit in the Metroid series any better for it.

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Postby Infinity's End » 05.09.07 9:10am

I don't think it's fair to Metroid to say that it's all gone downhill since Mr. Yokoi died. He quit Nintendo just before he died anyway, so it's not like even if he WAS alive, he would have been helping make a new Metroid game.

True, there are parts of the franchise lately that seems to be missing... that feeling of complete loneliness and solitude, and no one around to help you except for some ridgid bird statues.
Also, I think the "openness" is really missing from today's Metroid games. Though Prime REALLY REALLY tried to add this in, I think the Retro team still has a lot to learn from Super. We'll see if they make it up in Prime 3, though I won't count my chickens until they hatch.

Metroid 5 on the DS (I'm admitting defeat that it will never come out on the Wii due to the mainstream market) could possibly be like Wario: Master of Disguise. Basically the control pad and buttons do the exact same thing and control movement, with UP and X both being the jump (for lefties and righties). This lets you shoot your weapon from any direction depending on where you tap. Shooting enemies in this fashion is really fun! And they could always give you different control schemes for people that like the old-school way better. The L or R button could be used for Dash/Run. If they wanted, they could even put a scan visor that you could equip with Select and then just tapping on the object would give you the synopsis on the top screen! There's a lot of options here!

I know what you're thinking: "what about holding R to open the missile hatch?" But do we REALLY need it? I think we were just spoiled from Fusion and ZM.

Also, the top screen could be the map or data much like the Castlevanias. The DS deserves to have a GOOD Metroid game, unlike the crap that is Hunters...
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Postby Insomniac By Choice » 05.09.07 3:03pm

No, I'm not saying the series went downhill because he died/left (I do rate SM as the best game out of any to come out, though). I'm saying that without him, they stopped being Metroid games and became something else. I think I mentioned this Cap the other day and I know I've expressed it to other Metroid fans before, but I don't think the Prime series has anything at all to do with the 2D games. They're their own compact universe (except Hunters, which doesn't exist at all). They're good for what they are, I just don't think they're good *Metroid* games. Prime was a great Prime game, Prime 2 is decent Prime game, but neither are very good Metroid games. Fusion was a very good game for it was, but it didn't fit in to what was set by M1/M2/SM. Zero Mission is fine, I just don't enjoy retcons or pretty much anything following the original destruction of the Zebes base. It just feels wrong.

I like your ideas for gameplay, by the way.

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Postby Sasuke1986 » 05.10.07 10:53am

Infinity's End wrote:I know what you're thinking: "what about holding R to open the missile hatch?" But do we REALLY need it? I think we were just spoiled from Fusion and ZM.


Actually, I still prefer the weapon select options that were in Super Metroid. I suppose it might come off as inconvenient to some, but ehh, I forgot where I was going with this.

Also, I am starting to think I'm the only person who actually likes/liked Hunters. Yes, there were many things about it that sucked (those instant death pistons and just the presense of INSTANT DEATH probably being the things I dislike the most) but I still found it to be enjoyable. I guess my inability at the time to play online made me dull to the online community that might have made the game bad.

But yeah, it's kinda early in the morning for me to be discussing things, and Pokeyman and the Pokecenter music is sort of impairing my thought so I better get back to playing Pearl now.

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Postby Infinity's End » 05.11.07 10:08am

EDIT: I moved Cap's post to the Prime forum since it was getting a little off-topic.
Anyway, sorry, this is what Jesse D posted:

Jesse D wrote:
Infinity's End wrote:Feel free to add your own...


No more forced linearity or breaks in gameplay to tell you where to go next.

Seriously, I looked away from the screen each time Zero Mission would pause to tell you where to go next. And I never used the map. ZM was too easy even without the guidance.

The forced linearity in Fusion also really needs to be avoided in the future. That just sucked the sense of freedom out of it.
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Postby squeehunter » 05.13.07 11:14pm

I never liked stacking the ice beam onto my weapons. I would always turn it off. Infact, I don't really like stackable weapons. What's the point of having seprate animations for each of the beams if you're never going to see them?

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Postby Jesse D » 05.13.07 11:55pm

Yeah, the ice beam kinda slows things down later on, especially after you have the Plasma Beam. My preferred setup is to combine the Plasma and Wave beams, with ice disabled. It's the next best thing to the Hyper Beam.

I'd love to see a return of stackable beams, and maybe the Megaman-style gimmicks would be a nifty (albeit probably useless) addition. (You know, enable only one beam and then power bombs, charge, then it releases itself.)
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hey, how about new beams?

Postby chaosvolt » 05.14.07 4:09am

why not a beam that drains? :twisted:
they could at least combine the ice and nes-style wave beams 8)
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Postby Infinity's End » 05.14.07 10:32am

Jesse D wrote:I'd love to see a return of stackable beams, and maybe the Megaman-style gimmicks would be a nifty (albeit probably useless) addition. (You know, enable only one beam and then power bombs, charge, then it releases itself.)


I think this is the best way to have anything that closely resembles "beam ammo." If you want to use it, you can, if you don't, then you aren't forced to. The power bomb combos with single beams were really fun, and I think it opens a lot of possibilities, they just need to refine it enough to make it useful to the gameplay and the game in general.

Also, the Charge Beam's gravity pull/item suck-in feature established in Prime would be really cool if they could pull it off in 2D.
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Postby Ankerous » 05.14.07 11:15am

I'd like to think that they are developing it, they just don't wish to disclose any details. I don't mind a wait as long as the wait is worth it. Think about it, after SM, we didn't get any Metroid for 8 years. Since then we've gotten Prime, Fusion, Prime 2, Hunters, Prime Pinball, MZM, all in the span of around 4 years.

Aside from developing our own 2D Metroid, I think we'll just have to be patient and give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt that they will deliver a quality title eventually during the DS' lifetime. The quantity of titles during that span shows that they do know that Metroid is in demand, just as is Mario and Zelda.

I know that pushing the big franchises to outside developers can sometimes not turn out the way people want, i.e. the Prime games, the CDI Zeldas, etc, but then I think of the Minish Cap. Flagship Studios, funded by Capcom, Nintendo, & Sega, did a decent job with that along with other games they have developed (the Oracle Zeldas, RE0, etc).

I know some people might not agree that they were good titles compared to what has been developed by Nintendo but I would give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to handling another beloved Nintendo franchise.

Maybe we'll get some surprise news about something before the year is out.

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Postby CapCom » 05.14.07 4:45pm

Don't forget that Nintendo said they were working on something like 80 titles for Wii and DS - a DS Metroid is likely on the list somewhere.

Though they never clarified how many of these were re-releases on virtual console and whether those counted towards the total... And some of these are likely to get canceled anyway.

I think one of the biggest things I'd like to see is co-op. I think more games need a co-op mode, or at least be more interesting to watch. Of course, with the DS it's a bit different than say on a console because the screen is so small - it's got to be done over wifi at that point. But the co-op has to be done in a logical way once you have an established series to work with.

One thing I would like to see is Metroid mutations and a better investigation of how the species functions. Of course, mutations is something that would belong better in a Metroid 2 remake than Metroid 5. For Metroid 5 you would probably need a unique new enemy like the X.

I would also like to see level exploration in 3 dimensions, say through doors or something. Metroid 2 actually kind of did this because the map does not fit on a 2D surface - either parts of the map are missing, or the caves go out at angles. Anyway, if you have this, then you can explore the background of a level.

Oh yeah. Either Ridley's dead or we've been fighting a bunch of different ones in a species. I'm tired of seeing old enemies become resurrected. It worked once in Super Metroid, but this has gotten ridiculous. It's time for something new.
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Postby Infinity's End » 05.15.07 9:05am

you just opened my mind to a world of ideas.

I don't know of any other 2D game that does this: Make it so you can go into the background on several layers. There could be an opening that will allow you to get to it, but maybe, just maybe, they could do some kind of flip of the screen that will allow you to see an entirely new layer of the screen and that would make it seem like you can traverse even further on each map. Or possibly something like Super Paper Mario that would rotate the screen 90 degrees, but it would still be 2D gameplay. They could have each room be several different layers, making it incredibly difficult to find new items and even harder to find your way around. The way a Metroid game should be!

So with that it's entirely possible they could make the game 2.5D - the backgrounds would be mostly 2D with some 3D elements, but all the sprites in the game would be 3D.
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Postby Ankerous » 05.15.07 2:12pm

I'd like to see a Kid Icarus as well. I think it's about time he got a new game, be it 2D or 3D, DS or Wii. I'd prefer it or a new 2D Metroid to be DS because I have a DS and there aren't too many games that I have or ones out there that I want to get right now.

The only other DS game I'm waiting for right now is Phantom Hourglass.

I've seen a Fusion/MZM editor thats coming along nicely that seems easier to use than some other editors, so maybe we'll see some quality fan-hacks soon enough, not that SM: Redesign and the other few good SM hacks aren't top quality.

I'd like a 2D Metroid that would take as much time as it does on a first go through with Prime or Prime 2. A gigantic world to explore, or worlds.

I'd still like to see a 3rd person 3D Metroid....maybe sometime after the Prime trilogy is over with.

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Postby Elig » 05.15.07 5:12pm

First of all, I really disagree with the notion that Prime wasnt an excellent Metroid game. If you go back to before Metroid Prime 2's launch, pretty much everyone agreed Metroid Prime the original was as good as Super Metroid, atleast. Some were saying it was better. Then, Metroid Prime 2 gets released, and we all forget that the first one was actually GOOD. Granted Prime 2 was awful enough to put a pretty good stain on the series, but I think that we shouldnt forget, Even TJ thought that Metroid Prime 1 was excellent. Metroid CAN be done it 3d well, because it WAS done in 3d well. However, it can also be done in 3d badly.

I think it's a major mistake to assume that 2d = good and 3d = bad. Take Metroid Fusion, for example, which many (including myself, admittedly) dont like. Or, a better example IMO, look at the recent Super Metroid redesign mod. Now, Im a programmer, and a huge Metroid fan. And as a programmer, Im a HUGE fan of the Super Metroid engine. And I didnt think anything bad could possibly be done with it. But I was wrong, I've played that mod through to completion, and I can honestly say that I didnt like it at all.

So, even Super Metroid can be turned into something that isnt terribly good. I dont think it has a lot to do with 2d versus 3d, I really dont. I think it has far more to do with who is designing it, and how. In Metroid Prime 1's case, they were very, very careful not to disappoint people. Everyone was saying that they were going to ruin Metroid, and I think they were very careful not to. In Metroid Prime 2's case, I think they really stopped caring, partly I think due to all the praise that Metroid Prime 1 recieved.

Also, there have been 2d games where you can go into the background to various extents. Generally, it hasnt been done well.

Also, as a programmer, let me say that there's no such thing as 2d versus 3d game play. It's just whether or not you want to implement a certain type of play in 3d versus 2d. Certain designs are much harder to implement in 3d, and certain designs are much harder in 2d, but when talking about core game mechanichs, there really isnt a difference. If you take Metroid as an example, the primary features of Metroid most would say to be maybe exploration, upgradeability, optional enhancements and secrets, and the enviornment itself is usually the enemy as compaired to some sort of enemy force or what have you. None of that has anything to do with 2d. Infact, if you even look at how you control Samus, the only things you can do with samus are run, jump, and shoot. And frankly, the only other games where this is the case are usually 3d first person shooters.

In terms of a new Metroid, I think the problem is that noone who is currently developing Metroid really about where Metroid is going, and where Metroid has been. I would like to see in a new Metroid space jump as it was implemented in Super Metroid. A lot has been said about this being "difficult" to implement in terms of game design. This is somewhat true, it is more difficult than not having it, but to say it's difficult implies that games havent commonly done it before. Infact, the ability to fly in 3d first person games has happened quite often. Further, I'd like to see them put a lot of time into the development of a new Metroid game (Years, quite a few years if I had my say), and I'd like to see more close supervision by Shigeru Miyamoto (Metroid Prime 1 was quite heavily supervised by Miyamoto, while 2 had much less supervision, and I think it shows). Also, I'd like to see the weapon system as it was implemented in Prime 1. Which I think was the best way to implement multiple weapons I've ever seen.

Also, less focus on attacking the space pirates being the main theme, and more of a return to surviving the enviornment. But, that's just my opinion on the matter, really. Im not saying anyone has to agree with me, I just thought I'd post.

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