Metroid Fusion in retrospect

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Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Demontongue » 01.02.14 1:53am

Other M has been out for a while, we've assumed, disccused, diagreed, agreed and otherwise debated
Other M's plot for some time now. Given all that- what do you think of Fusion's plot in hindsight?

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Apothem » 01.02.14 4:07am

Fusion was fine, if not somewhat uninspired. No-one really likes the hand-holding the game forces on you but otherwise it's a solid entry in the franchise that many hold up there with the likes of Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. It was something of a first for the series too, having any notable emphasis on narrative, giving Samus more of a voice of her own, and having another character for her to (infrequently) play off of. The story was simple and straight forward, the only real mystery at the end was who among the Federation was in on the illegal Metroid breeding. If anything, post-Other M, Fusion is stronger as for whatever unfathomable reason Sakamoto thought it wise to effectively rehash the entire plot and setting of Fusion, only in 3D and no where near as well produced. Other M pretty much killed any hope of having the franchise focus at all on character and universe building outside of base mechanics, which is a tragedy unto itself, and while Fusion never attempted to push things very far it did what it did well. Honestly, at this point, we simply need another Metroid game. I wouldn't be adverse to another along the lines of Fusion, hopefully one picking up where that game left off. I also wouldn't be against another narrative heavy take on the series formula, similar to Other M, provided Nintendo got someone better suited to write it.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby TheAccursedHunter01 » 01.02.14 5:18pm

Fusion was fine, if not somewhat uninspired. No-one really likes the hand-holding the game forces on you but otherwise it's a solid entry in the franchise that many hold up there with the likes of Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. It was something of a first for the series too, having any notable emphasis on narrative, giving Samus more of a voice of her own, and having another character for her to (infrequently) play off of. The story was simple and straight forward, the only real mystery at the end was who among the Federation was in on the illegal Metroid breeding. If anything, post-Other M, Fusion is stronger as for whatever unfathomable reason Sakamoto thought it wise to effectively rehash the entire plot and setting of Fusion, only in 3D and no where near as well produced. Other M pretty much killed any hope of having the franchise focus at all on character and universe building outside of base mechanics, which is a tragedy unto itself, and while Fusion never attempted to push things very far it did what it did well. Honestly, at this point, we simply need another Metroid game. I wouldn't be adverse to another along the lines of Fusion, hopefully one picking up where that game left off. I also wouldn't be against another narrative heavy take on the series formula, similar to Other M, provided Nintendo got someone better suited to write it.
I don't think there ever needs to be a Metroid story as heavily emphasized as Other M, but a Metroid game that has a serious interest in telling a good story would be something I would support, if that makes any sense. Other M seemed to take a Metal Gear-like approach to its story telling. The biggest problem with this, aside from less atmospheric gameplay, was all the dramatic irony(for those who don't know what this means: irony that occurs when the meaning of the situation is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play) that causes a disconnect between the player and Samus. This is one of the main problems I had, since Metroid games are so atmospheric, the player and Samus being one entity is very important. Other M's main goal seemed to be the story, which for a video game in general sounds like a death sentence. Story seemed like the main goal, which should be reserved for gameplay and immersion. You can tell a great, emotional story, that is not at the forefront like in Other M. The Prime games did a great job of showing that, despite what Samus does, there's a human in there. It might have been slight, but the Primes showed off Samus' human/emotional side, while keeping an aura of professionalism and restraint. I don't think every game from here on out will be nothing but a Super/Prime rehash, devoid of character or universe building. The problem is that Samus' characterization and humanization in Other M, in a nutshell, can be summed up with this picture:
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Samus being female is not a defining part of her character, it seems more of a "Yeah I'm a girl, and?!" type of deal. Just wanted to get that out there. However, if you compared the dialogue from Fusion with that of Other M(especially the elevator monologues which I actually liked), the dialogue between the two games sound similar. Perhaps this was a problem that was always present, but only now is it actually shown since there is so much dialogue in Other M. The only problem I can find with Fusion narrative wise is that when Samus discovers the Metroid Breeding Facility, she doesn't say anything about it. Only when Adam mentions that there are more than 1 SA-X on board does she say anything. Maybe Samus was freaked out and angry at the Metroids, but was keeping her emotions to herself, and the SA-X matter tipped her over the edge. I don't believe Samus even talks about the Metroids after she finds the secret research facility. That could be a subjective matter, but that kind of left me curious. Last thing is a nitpick, but when Samus suggests the self destruction of the BSL to eliminate the X, she doesn't think of slamming it into SR388, just blowing it up in orbit and making herself a martyr. Kind of makes Samus to be really impulsive and somewhat stupid. I believe she stated in her inner monologue that she would sacrifice herself only if necessary, but still. Samus' talking about the human soul and stuff sounded a bit too preachy, and Adam suddenly becoming caring instead of his earlier duty based self seemed really weird.

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby okey » 01.02.14 6:43pm

My opinion on Fusion hasn't really changed much. It's a fun game with a bad story. The idea of a linear, story-driven Metroid should have been a one-off.

Adam is a bad character that has no purpose. He could have easily been replaced by a generic AI and it wouldn't have made any difference.

Samus' monologues aren't as annoying as they are in Other M, but they aren't interesting either. Narration only works when the main character is charming or full of shit, and Samus is neither.

I hate how they permanently killed of the series' iconic villains only to replace them with...nothing. Just the vague threat of some generic corrupt government plot. They really painted themselves into a corner and honestly I wish the game was non-canon.

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Zynux » 01.02.14 7:03pm

Adam is a bad character that has no purpose. He could have easily been replaced by a generic AI and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Agreed. Adam should have never been mentioned again after Fusion; he just isn't an interesting character.
I hate how they permanently killed of the series' iconic villains only to replace them with...nothing. Just the vague threat of some generic corrupt government plot. They really painted themselves into a corner and honestly I wish the game was non-canon.
Yeah, this is truly baffling. Space Pirates are now presumed all dead/not a threat anymore without MB or Ridley (confirmed in Other M), Metroids (and SR388) was presumably all completely destroyed, along with the X-parasite. In one game, all galactic threats introduced in the main canon are destroyed...so what now? While claiming the game should have been non-canon is pretty harsh, I can see where you're coming from. They really did throw themselves into a corner.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby okey » 01.02.14 8:28pm

While claiming the game should have been non-canon is pretty harsh, I can see where you're coming from. They really did throw themselves into a corner.
You know how people keep saying that Other M is the Metroid equivalent to the Star Wars prequels?

Well Fusion is like one of those weird novels that take place after Return of the Jedi. Yeah it's got it's moments, but is it really worth messing up a perfect ending?

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Apothem » 01.02.14 9:00pm

Last thing is a nitpick, but when Samus suggests the self destruction of the BSL to eliminate the X, she doesn't think of slamming it into SR388, just blowing it up in orbit and making herself a martyr. Kind of makes Samus to be really impulsive and somewhat stupid. I believe she stated in her inner monologue that she would sacrifice herself only if necessary, but still.
Why would she need to sacrifice herself if a more practical option was available? She had to eliminate the metroids on the station and the X parasites present there and on the planet. Kill two birds with one stone and detonate the station in low orbit obliterating both, with plenty of time to escape and live to fight another day. Sound well thought out and reasonable to me.
I hate how they permanently killed of the series' iconic villains only to replace them with...nothing. Just the vague threat of some generic corrupt government plot. They really painted themselves into a corner and honestly I wish the game was non-canon.
Yeah, this is truly baffling. Space Pirates are now presumed all dead/not a threat anymore without MB or Ridley (confirmed in Other M), Metroids (and SR388) was presumably all completely destroyed, along with the X-parasite. In one game, all galactic threats introduced in the main canon are destroyed...so what now? While claiming the game should have been non-canon is pretty harsh, I can see where you're coming from. They really did throw themselves into a corner.
One of the worst things to come from Other M is the hell that game plays on the Prime series canon. The Space Pirates were established as a serious, if not nebulously defined, and independent threat to the galaxy which could potentially live on regardless of whatever happened as they seemed to lack a centralized structure. Other M just made them mindless beasts, useless were it not for Mother Brain's mind control.

Metroids aren't all gone, that's perhaps the series' greatest detriment, that each game, bar one, has to revolve around the titular creatures somehow. It was never stated just how much metroid DNA the Federation had access to, as such the lovable little critters could easily be brought back. If not that, Samus is functionally a walking, talking metroid thanks to the fusion suit, something could be played off there.

This whole "cleaning house" is a result of Nintendo not caring about the narrative consequences of their actions. They don't think that far ahead with their series as they're almost exclusively focused on the mechanical. With Fusion and Other M we see how that approach can significantly backfire.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Xerkxes » 01.02.14 9:30pm

Last thing is a nitpick, but when Samus suggests the self destruction of the BSL to eliminate the X, she doesn't think of slamming it into SR388, just blowing it up in orbit and making herself a martyr. Kind of makes Samus to be really impulsive and somewhat stupid.
"The X must not leave here. I must destroy them all before the Federation arrives. This station has a self-destruct mechanism. I must use it to destroy the X here and on the planet[/nosmiley]. I must send them to oblivion. Them, the station, and myself, if I have to"

Actually, she DOES conclude that she has to use the station to end those on the planet.

"He would know that the only way to end this is to start the self-destruct cycle. He'd know how important it is..."

Note that Samus only mentioned really mentions the explosives, not really her entire intention.


So either Samus Assumed the explosives from orbit would be enough (and given that it WAS capable of catching the whole planet, not all too much an off assumption), or Adam assumed she was only thinking about what was on the station.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby TheAccursedHunter01 » 01.02.14 11:28pm

Last thing is a nitpick, but when Samus suggests the self destruction of the BSL to eliminate the X, she doesn't think of slamming it into SR388, just blowing it up in orbit and making herself a martyr. Kind of makes Samus to be really impulsive and somewhat stupid.
"The X must not leave here. I must destroy them all before the Federation arrives. This station has a self-destruct mechanism. I must use it to destroy the X here and on the planet[/nosmiley]. I must send them to oblivion. Them, the station, and myself, if I have to"

Actually, she DOES conclude that she has to use the station to end those on the planet.

"He would know that the only way to end this is to start the self-destruct cycle. He'd know how important it is..."

Note that Samus only mentioned really mentions the explosives, not really her entire intention.


So either Samus Assumed the explosives from orbit would be enough (and given that it WAS capable of catching the whole planet, not all too much an off assumption), or Adam assumed she was only thinking about what was on the station.
So Adam just jumped to conclusions when saying "You know that detonating this station in high orbit would not guarantee the complete extinction of the X parasites. Even though the station would be utterly destroyed... You would only succeed in removing the one obstacle to the galaxies ruin.... yourself. You ignore this simple fact and choose death." So moral of the story, Adam's an asshole :adam: .

When Adam says to go slam the station into SR388, Samus is surprised by this, going off of the sudden close up of her face in her visor. This lead me to believe Samus didn't think to alter the station's orbit. I guess it was a mishap on the script writer's part for Samus to think of the explosives n her inner monologue, then immediately forget about them when Adam started talking.

Thanks for looking up the quotes to verify, I wasn't completely sure.

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Maetch » 01.03.14 1:47am

The only problem I can find with Fusion narrative wise is that when Samus discovers the Metroid Breeding Facility, she doesn't say anything about it. Only when Adam mentions that there are more than 1 SA-X on board does she say anything. Maybe Samus was freaked out and angry at the Metroids, but was keeping her emotions to herself, and the SA-X matter tipped her over the edge. I don't believe Samus even talks about the Metroids after she finds the secret research facility. That could be a subjective matter, but that kind of left me curious.
I took her lack of response as a silent accepting of the fact that the Federation (or at least the corrupt parts) was stupid to be cloning Metroids despite all the problems they inevitably cause, but she definitely didn't act surprised towards finding the lab at all (ADAM was trying to get Samus out of the sector quickly, which pretty much screamed to her that something illicit was down there and needed investigating). Then the Feds descend even further down the common sense-scale and decide to capture an SA-X for study, even going so far as to pull Samus's support so that she doesn't kill the creature too soon (barring the fact that without said support, she's dead meat against said SA-X).

After Other M, the stupidity is just even more apparent. Not only do the Feds try the same cloning project again with the Metroids, but they apparantly also use BSL to hide the salvaged evidence from the Bottle Ship (the Space Pirates, Ridley, and the Nightmare had to have gotten onboard somehow, and all three were present on the Bottle Ship). At that point, Samus would probably be face-palming over how nobody in the Federation can seem to learn their lesson and leave well-enough alone.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Xerkxes » 01.03.14 8:38am

If anything, the non reaction to Metroids in fusion is the only thing that helps Other M kind of fit.

Though, I took the lack of reaction of Samus as just that she simply wasn't surprised

1: she was the one who brought back a metroid in the first place and gave it too the GF for research. though in Other M she says she kind of feels bad about doing it because of Adam's disposition about organic weapons and whatnot, but it's not like that's why she brought it back. it should have been a given that, well, they'd build labs.

2: She knows she was saved by Metroid DNA fashioned into a vaccine. if they had the DNA to save her, they have the DNA to make clones.

3: the BSL was a faithful replication of SR388.
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Shade Nightclaw » 01.08.14 6:47pm

is it just me or does it feel like the guys who did that illegal stuff plan this from the beginning? it seemed TOO convient they were collecting specimens on sr388 and samus was the only one who got infected too... not only that she lost 98% of her gear from the surgery..and they just so happened to put it in a capsule fulla x parasites instead of disposing of it to avoid problems since it has organic components...furthermore it seems like the federation had too much knowledge of how her suit works to repair it as well as too convient they had leftover Metroid DNA, also not only that they "wanted to evacuate the sa-x" I think they planed it to kill her off and have a controllable version of her as they feared she was too powerful...obviously it didn't work out as they got killed those who were on the station but still you get my point.

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Xerkxes » 01.09.14 1:15am

is it just me or does it feel like the guys who did that illegal stuff plan this from the beginning? it seemed TOO convient they were collecting specimens on sr388 and samus was the only one who got infected too... not only that she lost 98% of her gear from the surgery..and they just so happened to put it in a capsule fulla x parasites instead of disposing of it to avoid problems since it has organic components...furthermore it seems like the federation had too much knowledge of how her suit works to repair it as well as too convient they had leftover Metroid DNA, also not only that they "wanted to evacuate the sa-x" I think they planed it to kill her off and have a controllable version of her as they feared she was too powerful...obviously it didn't work out as they got killed those who were on the station but still you get my point.
I doubt the Feds knew of the X.

However the suit parts thing I believe was because they themselves wanted too keep them to attempt to replicate them. Chozo tech is pretty self adapting, as evident with the primes it being compatible with MANY different species. could have been a matter of they didn't need to bother knowing too much , I mean all they really did was add a new layer of armor on top of the base layer they couldn't remove, they didn't repair it else she'd have had her abilities.

I'm not surprised they had Metroid DNA. she DID give them a living one at the end of metroid two, not so hard to ship out a sample, create clones of it.. which is exactly what they did.


I believe the whole reason they kept her on the station was because they wanted to observe how effective the X was. 'cause right after they determined no survivors, they SHOULD have just told Samus to evac and send in a ship to nuke it and the planet.

Though, even thinking with their corrupt intents, they should have told her too evac, and lie to her about nuking the station and planet.
they probably could have gotten what they wanted, 'least till they try to capture an SA-X and put the whole universe at risk for their stupidity.

you know, with the Pirates virtually gone, WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY BOTHERING WITH TRYING TO MAKE MORE WEAPONS!
especially the kind that is morally wrong and puts everyone at super risk?
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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Shade Nightclaw » 01.11.14 12:00am

I think it was very suspicious either way...also did you not remember it HAD space pirates on it? no one ever said they were gone just very scattered cause of what happened, and I saw purple space pirates on there even if they were infested!

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Re: Metroid Fusion in retrospect

Postby Xerkxes » 01.11.14 9:20am

After Other M I wasn't surprised to see them.
Since clone Ridley's corpse was taken from the bottle ship.


However while I get it explains why the clone corpse was on the BSL.... you'd figure for her that would cause her become extremely appearent to that the BSL was also under the control of the corrupt sector of the GF.
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