Development Only 3D SR388

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joshex

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Development Only 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 06.23.09 10:53pm

Alright first off, I have my opinion about the metroid series, but I'm gonna stop being a jerk about it.

so let just put all that behind us, and start anew.

'Development Only': this means this project will be partially open source but with one condition;

the products contained here are only to be used for this particular project. any other use can constitute a law suit for stealing artistic works. (unless you get permission from the particular artist who made what ever it is you want to use)

fair enough?

to further this, models will only be released to:
A: the head(s) of the team.
B: people who request the models in a genuine effort to help make this project. however, requests like: “I need the metroid model so I can make what I think a metroid evolution should be.” may be denied unless there is significant reasoning for said claim. but claims like: “the metroid needs a party hat” will be ignored.

the purpose of this project = fan game (and to have some fun delving in SR388, in great detail ;) ) eventually with enough help this process should form a game 3rd or 1st person or both whatever is desired by the team..

EDIT: also this project aims to be a remake of, metroid II: the return of samus, can we all agree on that premise?

this is going to be a simplistic game project or at least allot more simple than I had envisioned the previous project. (It wont have a cross section of the scenery unless someone here is a real wiz at python.)

notes: remember I said my metroid model was around 10,000 polies? well I've simplified it to less than a thousand, and it still looks decent.

this is one of three projects I'm working on. and yes, though the other thread showing the models is locked, I don't see any reason why that same thing should happen here. this is not a discussion thread perse, just a place to work out how each individual part of SR388 will look and operate as we make said parts. (lets not get ahead of ourselves, is what I'm saying.)

also this will be a place to slap up uploaded images of each part, textures ETC. the individual .blend files should be sent between those involved by email. and only as necessary to piece together the project.

If this game should become marketable and 'we' get hired as a team, compensation may become possible, as well as a definite kick-back to the blender3D foundation.

so with a knowledge of some of the stuff I've got done, what do you think should be the next models or textures to work on for all of those capable?

me personally, I think samus her-self in suit, her ship, samus out of suit (may have variations to be decided on., or could put them all in as choices or extras for when you beat the game.) after that how about some of the SR388 enemies or a 'room'?

we already have one samus out of suit, but I'll think I'll remake most of her just to be on the safe poly side. (I mean she had individual teeth ETC. which is why she was 12,000 polies!) it wont be a shake of a lamb's tail till I can re-model her out of a cube. but again other out of suit samus models will be welcomed so long as you make them yourself.

Edit 2: this thread also aims to help create 3D modellers by teaching newbies the ropes. one condition you have to get blender running before we can help you (this should be simple) http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ the newest distro is 2.49a, I'm using 2.48a (due to an outdated Glibc version and no way to update it.) so for learners I suggest using blender 2.48a. so we can all be on the same page.

I am always on the look out for a way to update my Glibc though.
Last edited by joshex on 06.28.09 9:37pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mental

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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby mental » 06.23.09 11:25pm

I don't think those requirements quite meet the Open Source Definition.
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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby Naner » 06.24.09 11:22am

First, yeah, that's not quite open-source.

Second, I don't get it. It's a project you're creating, but with the help of anyone in the MDb who is willing to do something?
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joshex

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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 06.24.09 12:21pm

mental wrote:I don't think those requirements quite meet the Open Source Definition.


yeah I know, that's why I called it 'development only open source'

I mean would we want all our hard work on these models parading around the web with millions of other people on IRC chats saying the model's are thiers? I wouldn't.

but if you would perfer a proper open source of all attributes, we can do that to.. it would still be best to do it by email, but then anyone would be able to get them, for any reason (outside of our little team here)

Darth Naner wrote:First, yeah, that's not quite open-source.

Second, I don't get it. It's a project you're creating, but with the help of anyone in the MDb who is willing to do something?


nah! the only things really set in stone are that it's a remake of metroid 2 and it's 3D. as for me creating the game, I don't want to make it 'just me', for example Darth Naner and mental, if you know any decent ammount about blender or any artistic tool such as a music composition suite ETC. you could viably become a head dev of the team if you would so want. thats why I said head(S) of the team, so it's not just me..

but yeah, anybody who is willing to help can help, and if we think they know/have learned enough then they can become one of the head developers too.

I know it will turn out like that one little rascal's episode 'hook and ladder' where everybody is the chief at the fire station :p, but that way every body 'involved' will have an equal say on specific production points where we may have some discrepancy. (we'll discuss (limit should be 2 posts per person) it and put it to a final vote so as to be in an orderly manner whilst allowing everyone to state thier reasons..

also it would help if other users who may not be able to help by creating anything for the project would chime in with suggestions of what to make next ETC.

So yeah do you want a say on this? then help produce it in some way. for example if you don't want to model anything music and SFX are a must have! I know we already have some of the original metroid2 tunes here on the MDB, some may need to be cleaned up though (remove any 'static' or 'blank' parts at the beginning and end and fix any 'fadeouts' so they could be usable.)

thats just off the top of my head though.. if you would want to be a modeller or programmer more power to you lets do this thing, however it turns out.
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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby Naner » 06.24.09 12:30pm

I might be able to help by giving some ideas. I'm still a Padawan in the art of Java, so I won't be much use there. Music would be hard as well, since, despite playing the piano a lot, I have never composed a song.
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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby mental » 06.24.09 4:24pm

joshex wrote:
mental wrote:I don't think those requirements quite meet the Open Source Definition.
yeah I know, that's why I called it 'development only open source'
But if it isn't actually Open Source, then please don't use the words "open source". I think I can speak for the Open Source community as far as saying that we don't appreciate it when people do that.

joshex wrote:I mean would we want all our hard work on these models parading around the web with millions of other people on IRC chats saying the model's are thiers? I wouldn't.
Eventually you'll have to deal with that anyway if you release the finished product.

joshex wrote:but if you would perfer a proper open source of all attributes, we can do that to.. it would still be best to do it by email, but then anyone would be able to get them, for any reason (outside of our little team here)
You're much better off using a revision control system to manage the code and assets, something like git or bzr.

Also, as far as the art and music assets go (as opposed to code), I think one of the Creative Commons licenses would be more appropriate (in this case, probably by-nc-sa). Most of those are not strictly Open Source, but artistic works are a little different to code. As long as you aren't obscuring the distinction between what's open source and what isn't, I don't think people will mind so much.

joshex wrote:So yeah do you want a say on this? then help produce it in some way.
This is a good idea.

joshex wrote:I know we already have some of the original metroid2 tunes here on the MDB, some may need to be cleaned up though (remove any 'static' or 'blank' parts at the beginning and end and fix any 'fadeouts' so they could be usable.)
I think you'd be better off with remixes. The copyright situation is iffy enough as it is; you're much better off not directly reusing assets from the original game.

(I'd also be inclined to make a clean split between code and assets which are Metroid-specific, and those which aren't.)
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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 06.24.09 9:01pm

git and bzr sound promising, though, unless someone else is going to set that up, I think we could leave it till later, I mean it's not like theres a ton of us working on the project, for the time being a simple email/PM attachment and/ or upload link exchange should do for hosting the project.

I feel only a verbal license is necessary at this time, we could remove the open source bit from the title though, seeing as it doesn't fit, we could leave it as 'Development Only 3D SR388' naturally we'd have to get a mod or admin to change the initial title of the thread so as not to be misleading. any actual licensing can be done later (if/ when the project gets allot of members.)

at least thats my view on it, I'm happy to hear yours though and if you think these things are necessary, then once anything(s) are developed we can deal with the licenseing and hosting.

so, any voice on where we should start production wise (so we have some thing to license and host :D )?

and, Darth Naner, I could teach you a bit about modelling enough to get you started, then we can work out the kinks from there, thats if you wanted to help make the stuff (P.S. it's the fun but time consuming part) ;) or you can just tell us what to do like you said ;) on that note what do you think should we do first?

on the note of production I took a crack at spazer beam tonight, what do you think so far?:

Image

I know it's blocky, but we can fix that later, the main point is the look and design, but you tell me..

also I took a crack at wave beam, this is just under 200 polies a shot, I can cut it down to 100 polies a shot and make it look much better in the process, so with that in mind this is just a 'scrap wave beam' if you will. it waves up and down as well as side to side. be sure to tell me if you think this is a bad Idea and how I should make it.

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Re: Development Only Open Source 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 06.28.09 9:26pm

alright, due to some help I understand the wave beam picture I posted may not be easy to 'follow' so to speak so I took some pics from the back and the top.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1189/waveback.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3393/wavetop.jpg

also I'm still waiting on any comments as to what to make next and or what to base it off of.
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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 06.29.09 7:36pm

hmm, not many replies.. must not be that much interest in this project..

well if thats the case; tell me what makes it lack interest, I'm willing to change the 'verbal license' to be more opensource friendly if that is the issue. (might even make it completely open source if that is the general consensus.)

well, big news; I knew with my current skill it would be a quick job to re-model samus out of suit, so I went and did it. so whats the big news?; I modeled samus's face to the exact shape of super metroid samus's face BUT I left the eye sockets to be inbetween realistic and anime, then I gave her M2 clothes and hair, and wouldn't you know it I surprised my self! the facial structure though that of super metroid's samus was a dead ringer for metroid 2's samus. the only facial structure difference is the eyes. right now all she's missing are eyes, eyelids and a tongue. though I suppose if we are going to use her in a justin bailey mode, she'll need boots and the gun arm as well.

so the big news is we now have a one-size-fits-all samus (at least facially) though her body seems to be consistent as well.

so now the question: should I post a picture of this model? or should that be saved for the main development team only (and for when the game is completed and people beat it)? or should I post just a facial shot?

you tell me.

a note; technically I didn't model this samus from a cube, and yet technically I did, see, it was my spryte the fairy model from the legend of zelda (which I modeled from a cube) so technically it's modeled from a cube in the back track, but thats how I got it done so quick..
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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby Redwing » 06.29.09 8:52pm

This is certainly an audacious project. I don't really have anything I could lend to it, though, so I haven't posted. Still, I'm keeping up with it casually to see what happens. Your models seem to be coming out well.

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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 07.01.09 9:36am

Redwing wrote:This is certainly an audacious project. I don't really have anything I could lend to it, though, so I haven't posted. Still, I'm keeping up with it casually to see what happens. Your models seem to be coming out well.


thanks!, though suggestions are open to everyone so, is there something in particular you want to see me do next?

on another note I'm almost 1/3rd done with an in suit samus (which is a form-fit to my out of suit samus, why 1/3rd? I have the low polly model done except for the helmet (and I have to make one arm a gun arm), I still have yet to etch the high poly model out of it, then I have to bake to a texture. so three operations means I'm 1/3rd done even though one of those operations is very quick indeed. I also have to rig it, but that always comes last. right now without the helmet it's at 1314 polies. with my out of suit samus model in it it is (including hair and clothes she stands at a total of 2570 polies. this poly count may grow by.... (7x2)x4=56 polies at the max. (for really nice looking eyes.) and of coarse exactly 136 polies for shoes OR 152 polies for boots. (plus what ever the helmet and gunarm add up to, I'm estimating 100x2) so, 2570+56+(a136 b152)+200= a=2962 b=2978

so there poses a question: shoes or boots?

I mean at the best end of metroid 2 she's barefoot (it looks like she got the call to go to SR388 in the middle of the night; what with wearing only panties and a nightie top and no shoes or socks.) (though she's not without style in the fact she has bands on her forearms.) talk about rushing off to work :p I can just imagine what she would be thinking..: "you federation guys, got me up, in the middle of the night, to go kill metroids... Grrr, because of this there wont be a single smeged up creature on the smegging planet/asteroid when I'm done!!! (aka: "you mosters will pay for interrupting my beauty sleep!")

anyways: shoes, boots or barefoot?
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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby mental » 07.01.09 11:05am

Boots or barefoot.
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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby joshex » 07.02.09 9:56pm

pompeii pete: Ok, I got a de itty a bitty a problemente.

OK so what that line has been on my mind lately, anyways I've got a couple problems with my samus suit model.

the main problem is the helmet is a bit tall and is still off que so to speak, that and the upper torso armor is a bitr tall as well..

so whats the problem joshex?, why don't you just fix it? short answer: samus wont let me.

long answer I'm building my suit model with samus's body inside it so as to make it a form-fit. I can't shorten her upper torso because it would cause the armpit of the suit to go through samus's armpit. I can't shorten the helmet because samus's head is quite tall.

I can't sorten samus's head cause it wouldn't look right., and her torso is short enough. I did shorten her neck as much as possible, so the helmet isn't way too tall. it's a matter of inches (as per samus's actual highth.)

so does it look relatively good? yes

so whats the problem? samus's nose is almost dead center in the visor (slightly towards the bottom), yes her eyes are lined up in the visor, but her nose shouldn't be that visible I'm sure we can all agree about that. also the chin and mouth section of the visor is overly tall enough as is to try to compensate, if I raised the visor to her nose the helmet would have too tall a chin section.

so I could really use some advice here on what you all think, so heres what I have so far (note there is no gun arm yet, which is so I can always go back and 'mirror' the mesh if I have to change something on both sides.):

Image

you'll also notice the helmet appears too high up, however this is due to it being directly on center, where as samus in normal stance lowers her head forward a bit (much like I'm doing as I write this).. apparently..

also note there are no air hoses on the helmet yet. and the suit remains largely undetailed. (the basic form)
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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby Reconite » 07.03.09 4:28am

When you do put the gun on, make sure you put it on the right arm and not the left (her right arm, not what we see as right when we look at her head on which would make it her left arm), a lot of people get that kinda thing mixed up. :)
Last edited by Reconite on 07.03.09 5:13am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Development Only 3D SR388

Postby mental » 07.03.09 5:07am

(I really doubt he'd get the gun wrong.)

That suit model is probably the best work you've showed so far, and is rather good even though it looks like you do have some problems with triangles and/or normals.

Making the suit look like we're used to around a figure of realistic proportions is hard; generally the game designs compress the abdomen and broaden the shoulders too much for a realistically-proportioned woman to fit. Generally speakign if you can use accents to make the hips look higher and the shoulders/torso broader, it should help a little.

For example, here's one suit design I did for a post-Fusion fangame, using a drawing from a human model (in blue) as a reference.

Image

In your case, you might try making the hips and lower torso of the suit wider, which would certainly be in the spirit of the early Metroid suit designs.
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