Official Zelda Thread

For discussion of any information on Nintendo's consoles, games or anything Nintendo-related!

Which console are you buying Zelda Breath of the Wild for?

Wii U
8
73%
Switch
2
18%
Neither
0
No votes
Both
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 11.18.15 6:34pm



Toon Link trailer.


That Molgera music.
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

Apothem

User avatar

Moderator
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: 06.17.08 10:08pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Apothem » 11.22.15 5:26pm

On the topic of Hyrule Warriors, have some totally not fem!Link:

Image

Additionally, it recently struck me just how much Linkle resembles Dragon Crown's Elf:

Image

Image

  • Archers.
  • Hooded.
  • Twin braids.
  • Pointy ears.
  • Shorts.
  • Knee-high leather boots.

The similarities are uncanny.
Image

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 11.22.15 6:59pm

Elves in fiction, especially woodland ones pretty much all look the same and carry the same weapons (bows), so them looking almost identical is no surprise.
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

Apothem

User avatar

Moderator
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: 06.17.08 10:08pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Apothem » 11.23.15 3:27am

To a degree, but I stand by my point: Uncanny.
Image

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 11.23.15 4:00am

Don't get me wrong, I actually do believe there is a good chance it was inspired by the Dragon's Crown elf.
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

Remnants

User avatar

Metroid Queen
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: 05.01.11 9:08pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Remnants » 11.23.15 6:34am

Had they given her giant twin braids and an eye mask, she could just about pass for an adult Squid.

Apothem

User avatar

Moderator
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: 06.17.08 10:08pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Apothem » 11.23.15 8:27pm

They could just straight up throw an inkling in the mix. I'd kill for a "Nintendo Warriors" game. At least then we'd finally have something new with Samus in it...
Image

Luminoth Prime

User avatar

Omega Metroid
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: 08.19.14 2:36pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Luminoth Prime » 11.24.15 2:15am

There seriously needs to be more "Nintendo All-Star" properties than just Smash. Problem is, I guess, is that it'd encroach on the Mario franchise's marketshare with regards to its "Mario All-Star" games, like the tennis and Party games. And it's also more work. And they'd also want to find parity with Smash, which would be difficult due to Sakurai's dictatorship.
"Through vigilance and strength, we create peace."
Image

Apothem

User avatar

Moderator
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: 06.17.08 10:08pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Apothem » 11.24.15 10:41am

They seem to be slowly moving that direction regardless. An especially lucrative and sensible move given the immense success of Amiibo. Nintendo's probably the only company with such a diverse and expansive roster of characters and properties that can properly pull off the all-stars approach. It just seems weird and dissonant coming from nearly anywhere else, save for some of those anime crossover games like J-Stars and Super Robot Wars. I don't see how more Smash themed games would negatively impact the series, especially if the hypothetical games are in completely different genres. It's not something Nintendo has to do with everything, but it's an approach they could stand to consider.

Just give me my Super Smash / Nintendo Warriors and I'll be a very happy lad.
Image

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 11.24.15 8:21pm



RwanLink's Animation test. I hope he expands upon this somehow.


EDIT:

Ganondorf with Trident. Looking good.
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

Dartison

User avatar

Alpha Metroid
 
Posts: 191
Joined: 09.01.15 11:49pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Dartison » 11.24.15 11:47pm

It can't really be done without potentially consuming sales of other games.

Wouldn't be wise to make a racing game with all the Nintendo Stars. It would overshadow Mario Kart.

A party game would be ehhhh... No sports games either.

The idea would have to be new to Nintendo, possibly an original idea altogether.

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 11.26.15 6:26am



Skull Kid
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 01.02.16 3:12am

Image

Been Musing over Zelda as of late. Some incoherent rambling ahead.


I never considered myself a Zelda fan. I've always criticized the franchise pretty heavily over the years of the games I've played, and the ones that I did like still aren't exempt from criticism (often nitpicking levels), whether 2D or 3D. I've also mentioned previously here and elsewhere that the franchise kind of burned me on some aspects and I've been butthurt about it because of some entries and it's continued trends it holds. Because of this I've never really had a deep appreciation of this franchise and honestly thought it was a franchise deemed worthy of being "overrated".

I still largely think Zelda overall is a somewhat overrated franchise that I may get into, but still my perspective of it has definitely evolved over the years after I went back to play some old classics as well as new. Mainly, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask.


I'm relatively surprised mainly on how my perspective of the lore throughout these games have changed. In the beginning I generally thought the lore was generic fantasy and largely didn't pay attention to it. I mean, it's still basic fantasy with many staple cliches of fairy tales, but I've changed a bit here somewhat. I'm not sure if it's due to poor storytelling, but the vagueness surrounding all the Legends of Hyrule I find to be the series strong point when it comes to lore. While it's obvious that creating very loosely connected stories for a long running franchise likely was the reason for this, and not due to any sort of grand master plan of an overarching story, I still think it's a happy accident that actually works in it's favor: some things aren't explained and don't fit neatly too each other and really I don't think it needs to. I think the overall mystique of the events that happen in the story really adds to the feeling of some sort of Legend is unfolding. As you know, many legends get passed down for generations and often times details are lost and some are added as time goes on. Of course, to the more veteran fans, this doesn't excuse any possible contradictions the lore may have but I do think some the not-so-clear details surrounding it adds to it, and I feel that trying to fill in the gaps to some areas will make it lose it's charm.

This appreciation may have started thanks to my replaying Ocarina of Time a couple of years back. When I was a young lad, I never really got into OoT: instead I would always watch my older brother and uncle play it over and over. It's why I'm so familiar with the game even though I rarely touched it, since I've seen them beat the game countless times when I was younger (it's honestly a game I prefer watching over playing: I can watch casual or speedrun plays of it all days). It's far from my favorite Zelda game and I've criticized it heavily in the past, but I do have some nostalgia of it from that alone.

But with all my criticisms and nitpicking over OoT one thing I can say is how surprisingly I was impressed by the game's main plot. Sure it wasn't ground breaking or anything and in obvious Zelda fashion it re-trended previous territory of past Zelda storylines but I'm surprised during my Retro playing how somewhat-invested I got into the story and how decently it was told, and it caught me off guard. Before OoT the last Retro Zelda game I had played was Link to the Past which was obviously a far simpler story so I was not expecting OoT to be much more then that even if it was the next generation Zelda in comparison. Suffice it to say, I really enjoyed it, which was definitely something I didn't expect. Because of it, it seemed to have opened this door for me when it came to Zelda, even to the entries I didn't really like and won't shut up about, and even though I consider myself an outsider to Zelda I started to take more of an interest to the games and it's lore as a whole then just writing it off.

I really like the Hyrule Royal Family. Hell, I like Hyrule itself. I honestly can't really explain why, but it seems like a pretty believable place that I could see living in, despite the depictions in the game it seems that Hyrule isn't a perfect land to live in either. I just find it to be a fascinating family, especially when you start to delve into some theories about them, like the possible civil war in the country, possible Sheikah rebellion and such.

But mainly, my favorite Zelda characters are obviously Ganondorf and Zelda. Ganondorf for all intents of purposes is a generic baddy but I love him all the same. Though Pig Ganon is cool I definitely relate to Ganondorf much more. Maybe it's just his design and wicked armor, or awesome kimono and twin blades, but I find the Gerudo Thief to be a cool guy. Also that theme song. Wind Waker version is by far my favorite Ganon: most relatable motivation with the most kickass fight arena.

I really like Zelda, her multiple interpretations throughout the series and is definitely my favorite Zelda character. I just find her to be a really interesting Monarch and her role in the games to be kind of neat and as a person seems likable. I liked her relatable personality in OoT, her darker somber tone in TP, her sass in Wind Waker and her "immaculate"-like SS version (despite Zelda fans major criticisms of SS I really think they nailed Zelda here in a lot of aspects, and I think her relationship with Link here was pretty strong and dynamic): all I find really interesting. I've said before that I honestly wouldn't mind Zelda having a more active role in some the Zelda games in some spin off or something, mainly because I would like to see how the Triforce of Wisdom would handle an imposing threat if the Triforce of Courage was ever out of commission for whatever reason, I think that's a base for a really interesting story (like if the hero possibly failed and thus Hyrule was plunged into Despair because of it).

Though I can understand some of the gripes of Skyward Sword story. As I said before, I really like some of the mystique of the Legend lore and the uncertainty of some things. Making Zelda an incarnation of Hylia and Ganon an incarnation Demise kind of ruins that mystique. While it's obvious that the Legend of Zelda and the destinies of the 3 tri-force wielders will also be intertwined, it wasn't so obviously stated as it was in SS, which kind of ruined it a bit. Doesn't help the fact that it may have slightly lessened the impact of both Zelda and Ganon in my eyes, making them seem weaker and less interesting characters then before.

I can't say I care much for Link. I don't hate him at all: no I think he's still a cool guy (Wind Waker Link is so adorable and relatable for me) but I think my main problem with Link is that they keep trying to make him some sort of silent protagonist when I think he just fails at it. I don't think he's a very effective one and never have been. That's not to say I want him to speak, hell no, but I think a lot of Zelda fans pretending he's some silent protagonist when I think he isn't one at all really. Sure he doesn't really speak and other's speak for him but he still has a clear objective, clear motivations of his destiny, his back story as the Hero is set in stone and still seems like his own character instead of some sort of blank slate. So in the end I find him kind of boring but I don't object to him, maybe just find him a bit overrated. Though how he's able to pull off the Peter-Pan tunic and look good in it will always be a mystery.

Even though I don't really care for Link himself, that doesn't mean he's bad or anything. Zelda enthusiasts can correct me here, but I what I find really interesting about Link is how he seems to not ever get a happy ending and he sacrifices a lot for the Kingdom. Well, at least the Hero of Time seems to get no happy ending. It seems that a lot of the choices he makes no matter what are fated for some ill consequences and I find that really neat.

How this lore handles gods/goddesses seems a bit silly. Din, Farore, and Nayru were a good start, but then there seems to be the Goddess of Sands of the Gerudo Desert, Goddess of Time, Four Giants and now Hylia was added to the mix and all confused me and turned me upside down in trying to figure out how Hylia is related to Din/Farore/Nayru and vice versa. And Demise's existence just seems to raises more questions then answers for me. Honestly I think the addition of Hylia was a mistake but eh, maybe it was referenced somewhere prior to SS.


My favorite thing so far though is probably Majora's Mask. Can't say it's my favorite Zelda: Wind Waker will always hold my heart but man was this an interesting game. I liked how collectibles seemed really valuable here, since after every cycle you lost everything so you always had a reason to collect items. In the beginning I think I expressed dissatisfaction with this mechanic but after thinking about it I see the appeal. Also, not only you have Pieces of Hearts and Bottles, but the Masks themselves also add cool collectibles to this game, something I've always criticized other Zelda games for: not having enough worthwhile collectibles.

I think Termina has some really interesting lore and definitely may be my all time favorite location overall and overarching plot points. The themes of cruelness of time and fate, death and depression, helping those in need, searching for a long lost friend as well as encountering hardships and moving on with your life were pretty damn strong and my cynical, pessimistic self was impressed. My favorite locations is without a doubt Ikana and Stone Tower, already shooting up there as one my favorite Zelda locations overall:



So much mystery surrounding that place yet and it's jammed packed with cool stuff: A destroyed Kingdom, a history of bloody war, foreign spies, A mysterious Tower that held spirits at bay (all the theories for this place are pretty fascinating. Also, while the game seems to indicate that it was the Skull Kid that opened the Stone Tower the theory that it was possibly the Garo Master or Happy Sales Man that did it could makes things a bit more interesting imo), with cool music, atmosphere and architecture. Doesn't help that I pretty like anything featuring themes of the undead and such. The ever-so-slight hints to the tri-force here are also really cool (though probably just artistic choice).

Majora's Mask itself is probably my favorite lore of all of Zelda, and probably my favorite antagonist in a Zelda game. I've always been a sucker for mysterious phenomenons that cast destruction and this is no different. Yeah it's somewhat sentient but it also seems to operate by manifesting the desires of the wearer which I find cool. All the theories surrounding it all seem interesting (though I think the Manga origins seems slightly disappointing though still very solid), especially the implication that the Fierce Deity mask is similar in it's workings (as in, it's also a Mask with Dark power that enables the user that wears it and not necessarily a force of good). As I've said before, Skull Kid himself is nothing special but paired with Majora makes for an interesting character dynamic.

---

My butthurt for Twilight Princess should be well known around here, since I'm obnoxious about it (purposely). My Saga with Twilight Princess is definitely an interesting one looking back: it was probably the very first time a game I was really looking forward to turned out to be a disappointment, ever. Before then, any game or sequel I had acquired did not elicit feelings of disappointment at the time I had originally played it. I could become critical of it years later, but at the moment things were just dandy. It was also my very last preorder I ever had for a game: after the game, I never pre-ordered games again and generally hate the idea of pre-ordering. I got a head start of that even before store-exclusive pre-order bonuses started to become a popular thing to do.

The HD remaster for Twilight Princess sparked my interest. I generally hate remakes, and will likely refuse to buy one if I can (Wind Waker HD came free with My Wii U, so it's the only reason why I was able to acquire it). In the end, I highly doubt I will be able to obtain Twilight Princess HD in any form in the foreseeable future. But still, I honestly would love to give this game a try again

Thinking back, it makes sense why I'm this way with the game. I could nitpick the game all I want, but honestly I think what explains my disdain could largely just be that I wanted another Wind Waker. While I really loved watching OoT when I was younger, I still had little attachment to it as a game, but this is different for Wind Waker, and game I have a lot of attachment too. For many Zelda fans at the time, they wanted Zelda to go back to the OoT formula and thus got TP, yet I had no desire for that: I wanted Wind Waker to continue forward but I obviously didn't get it.

This introspection is another reason why hopefully one day I can replay Twilight Princess. I'm not lying when I say that I want to give the game a try again someday: my pessimism may be too strong but I do want to give it another chance since I'm curious just how biased I am too it and if some of my bias has subsided and I can see the game in a different light even if I likely won't ever "like it".


Either way, I remember Snowpeak Ruins being really cool in TP. I really liked that place, but it may be the same reason I liked Forest Temple: I'm a sucker for Manors/Mansion locations, they're one of my favorites. And militarized Mansion is rad as hell. Though I heard some think it's annoying but honestly I don't remember much about it except for the Ice puzzle.


My biggest problems with Zelda games that helped me gain the opinion of overrated is mainly the combat above all else. I'm surprised how little it has changed over the years. No, I don't want DMC/Gaiden/Bayo levels but I find the combat in the games to seem pretty primitive and too similar to OoT. Wind Waker made things flashy but I wouldn't call it much of an upgrade besides being able to Parry. Twilight Princess added a lot of cool maneuvers but the easy difficultly, at least in my experience, made you untouchable if you used them correctly. I hope in later Zeldas the enemies gain more mobility in combat so that Link can make use of more techniques then just shielding and countering.


Anyways I'm done.


Image
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M

ZebesBound

User avatar

Alpha Metroid
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 05.01.11 2:09pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby ZebesBound » 01.04.16 9:44pm

Though I can understand some of the gripes of Skyward Sword story. As I said before, I really like some of the mystique of the Legend lore and the uncertainty of some things. Making Zelda an incarnation of Hylia and Ganon an incarnation Demise kind of ruins that mystique. While it's obvious that the Legend of Zelda and the destinies of the 3 tri-force wielders will also be intertwined, it wasn't so obviously stated as it was in SS, which kind of ruined it a bit. Doesn't help the fact that it may have slightly lessened the impact of both Zelda and Ganon in my eyes, making them seem weaker and less interesting characters then before.
It's that kind of thing that kills any chance of me enjoying SS's story and lore, and that it claims to be "the one true origin story." I feel the same way about it hurting Ganondorf and Zelda. Ganondorf's story as the King of Thieves in OoT and WW was excellent and didn't need any more contrived meaning. We just needed more of it. Then there's the long list of retcons like screwing the story of the master sword, screwing the story of Zelda 2, and screwing the story of the goddesses. They also gave us a new explanation for Link's hat for the third fucking time.

Ganondorf and Zelda were by far the greatest characters in the series. They just had a great dynamic and stole the show whenever they appeared together. Add Link to the group and you have the perfect ingredients for a good story, which is why the endings of WW, TP, and to a lesser extent OoT, were so great. They just have a powerful screen presence that demands your attention. Demise is a joke in their shadow, who felt random and irrelevant.
The ever-so-slight hints to the tri-force here are also really cool (though probably just artistic choice).
I don't believe it was a simple artistic choice, and not just because of fan theories, but because of the guy who was responsible. Yoshiaki Koizumi:

-studied film, drama, storyboarding, and animation at University with the initial career goal of using the unique medium of video games to tell stories unlike those in books and film (unfortunately he picked the wrong company)
-wrote all of the backstory for ALttP, ie the goddesses and the triforce stuff which would be the gold-standard backbone for the series until SS
-created the design of the modern 3-part triforce (so you know he wouldn't throw it around randomly)
-did a whole lot of different things in OoT including parts of the story, which we can assume were the bits fleshing out the goddesses and triforce
-basically everything in MM outside of dungeon and enemy development
-was always criticized by Miyamoto for putting stories in his games to the point that he would try to sneak them in, then Miyamoto sent him from Kyoto to Tokyo to work in solitude on Mario, with the intent that he couldn't put stories in Mario games. But then because Koizumi is a total badass, in the midst of directing Mario Galaxy, he added in the whole story+Rosalina despite it not being part of his job requirement. Thanks to that, while we got the most story ever in a Mario game along with one of Nintendo's most popular characters, it brought back the whip of Miyamoto, and so he "put a stop to that." (actual Miyamoto quote). We haven't heard from Koizumi since.

So when this guy was directing MM and writing the story, backstory, and Termina lore, it's really not hard to believe that he would want to connect it to his past work and help bring the series together. He was very specific with the placement of the triforce in MM, and being the one who designed it and wrote the lore for it and the goddesses, he new exactly what he was doing when he put it there.

Thinking back, it makes sense why I'm this way with the game. I could nitpick the game all I want, but honestly I think what explains my disdain could largely just be that I wanted another Wind Waker. While I really loved watching OoT when I was younger, I still had little attachment to it as a game, but this is different for Wind Waker, and game I have a lot of attachment too. For many Zelda fans at the time, they wanted Zelda to go back to the OoT formula and thus got TP, yet I had no desire for that: I wanted Wind Waker to continue forward but I obviously didn't get it.
Just, curious: what about Wind Waker specifically did you want to return? The artstyle, the ocean, and the specific characters? Outside of those, I've always seen WW and TP as being very similar.

Zynux

User avatar

Super Metroid
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: 12.13.11 8:56pm

Re: Official Zelda Thread

Postby Zynux » 01.05.16 11:08pm

It's that kind of thing that kills any chance of me enjoying SS's story and lore, and that it claims to be "the one true origin story." I feel the same way about it hurting Ganondorf and Zelda. Ganondorf's story as the King of Thieves in OoT and WW was excellent and didn't need any more contrived meaning. We just needed more of it. Then there's the long list of retcons like screwing the story of the master sword, screwing the story of Zelda 2, and screwing the story of the goddesses. They also gave us a new explanation for Link's hat for the third fucking time.

Ganondorf and Zelda were by far the greatest characters in the series. They just had a great dynamic and stole the show whenever they appeared together. Add Link to the group and you have the perfect ingredients for a good story, which is why the endings of WW, TP, and to a lesser extent OoT, were so great. They just have a powerful screen presence that demands your attention. Demise is a joke in their shadow, who felt random and irrelevant.
Yeah, it's one of the things where the more you think about it the worse it gets. Now the Ganon in OoT/WW/TP and Zelda in OoT/WW/TP feel a bit gimped in the whole lore and I find that saddening.


"the one true origin story."


Was this an actual quote? Because Skyworld Sword just made things a bit more muddy. It only really explained the Master Sword but everyone else it just left more questions.

I don't believe it was a simple artistic choice, and not just because of fan theories, but because of the guy who was responsible. Yoshiaki Koizumi:

-studied film, drama, storyboarding, and animation at University with the initial career goal of using the unique medium of video games to tell stories unlike those in books and film (unfortunately he picked the wrong company)
-wrote all of the backstory for ALttP, ie the goddesses and the triforce stuff which would be the gold-standard backbone for the series until SS
-created the design of the modern 3-part triforce (so you know he wouldn't throw it around randomly)
-did a whole lot of different things in OoT including parts of the story, which we can assume were the bits fleshing out the goddesses and triforce
-basically everything in MM outside of dungeon and enemy development
-was always criticized by Miyamoto for putting stories in his games to the point that he would try to sneak them in, then Miyamoto sent him from Kyoto to Tokyo to work in solitude on Mario, with the intent that he couldn't put stories in Mario games. But then because Koizumi is a total badass, in the midst of directing Mario Galaxy, he added in the whole story+Rosalina despite it not being part of his job requirement. Thanks to that, while we got the most story ever in a Mario game along with one of Nintendo's most popular characters, it brought back the whip of Miyamoto, and so he "put a stop to that." (actual Miyamoto quote). We haven't heard from Koizumi since.

So when this guy was directing MM and writing the story, backstory, and Termina lore, it's really not hard to believe that he would want to connect it to his past work and help bring the series together. He was very specific with the placement of the triforce in MM, and being the one who designed it and wrote the lore for it and the goddesses, he new exactly what he was doing when he put it there.
That's interesting, didn't realize it was the same guy. Did he work on Majora Mask 3D? Since I heard reports that they removed all references of the triforce and redesigned some things.


If he did the designs, then I wonder what was up with the secret shrine. All those prototype-heart like masks that look like the Majora's Mask was an interesting touch. And then there's the potential upside down Majora's Mask statue in the Stone Tower Temple entrance. Maybe they were intentional too.

Just, curious: what about Wind Waker specifically did you want to return? The artstyle, the ocean, and the specific characters? Outside of those, I've always seen WW and TP as being very similar.
Probably a sense of exploration. I didn't feel I got that in TP.
"Cut! There are no second chances for actors that fall to the abyss. Await your second casting in the darkness forever." - The Night of Wallachia

Image
Ridley prepping his body for Other M


Return to “%s” General Nintendo Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron