Necessary Changes to Next Smash Bros.

[Angel of fire]

You all might want to see this:
http://mynintendonews.com/2010/12/08/ni ... difficult/


So any hope of having another game like Melee is out.

[Smoking Spoon]

I dunno, my friends and I all play for fun, but we never really liked it when Spear Pillar would repeatedly slow down and/or reverse the stage controls.

It was more an encumbrance than a silly wacky fun timeu gameu.

Haha! Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm sure Sakurai laugh like a little girl when we get confused by those thing.

[Doc Scratch]

DarkCat, you might want to examine the Dark Samus moveset more closely.

-The "Transform into dust" special is an up-B special, like ROB and Pit's flight. Not a multiple jump like Kirby's "flight."
-The beam special is NOTHING like Samus' neutral special, other than being a projectile. It's more like a ranged Falcon Punch/Warlock Punch, without the sheer power.
-The special is overpowered only if the chargeup time is low enough or knockback are high enough. I did not specify either of those factors beyond musing that warlock punch startup time is probably best.
-The Up-B also leaves DS in a helpless state, meaning she is unable to attack afterwards.
-No lag is a huge factor (Rolls take time). The down-B would be useful simply for that.
-The SimCity Assist Trophy would be broken because it has extremely high knockback. Dark Samus' Up-smash does not. Also, there would be some starting lag, like ANY up-Smash.
-The Down-aerial could NOT be used after an up-B, since up-B leaves DS in a helpless state.
-It's not overpowered at all. Compare to Zero Suit Samus/Sonic's down-aerial, which are hideously underpowered. In fact, this down-aerial might be even WORSE, since it doesn't do any damage or high knockback until it hits the ground.
-The crouch makes her invisible, not invincible.
-She moves at a WALKING pace. That's not fast.
-She's a larger target than any other crawling character, since she just hunches over.
-She stops being invisible as soon as she jumps, uses any attack besides a down-Smash or down-tilt, runs, gets hit, etc. She has to be CROUCHING to be invisible. In fact, this characterstic is BARELY useful at most, since the options are so limited.

If you want to rate how overpowered a moveset is, it might pay to actually read the moves carefully.

Not that any of that matters, since all I did was prove that Dark Samus plays NOTHING like normal Samus.

Other things that make Dark Samus different than Samus...
-Dark Samus has no bombs.
-Dark Samus has no grapple beam.
-Dark Samus has no screw attack.

[Dragonheart91]

In any case, numbers are irrelevant and I have no doubt that ANY character could be made and could be unique if a little creativity is used. Look at ROB who has no moves in real life, but who got an entire interesting and unique moveset made for him.

Also, Anthony Houston would be very easy to adapt to this game. He is big and heavy and somewhat slow. His neutral B charges the plasma gun, but he can't save charges like Samus or Lucario. (Therefore he has to be careful when choosing when to use it.) But, perhaps he could walk around slowly or turn around like D3's charge-up. Side-b is machine gun. (Or perhaps switch neutral and side-B) Down-b is his famous giant flippy jumps. (or perhaps up+b). One more unique attack rounds it out, and there are plenty of Gfed tech things you could give him. (Not to mention that I haven't used his Ice Gun yet, and that's a very valuable weapon which should fire straight down as his down+air just like when he falls off the cliff in the game.)

[Emperor Ing]

You forgot his final smash, which kills everything forever.

[Dragonheart91]

His final smash is "Remembuh Me?" His head becomes huge and as he speaks his teeth chomp the entire stage and all the characters to death.

[Chipou]

His final smash is "Remembuh Me?" His head becomes huge and as he speaks his teeth chomp the entire stage and all the characters to death.

his final smash is where he removes his helmet and his sheer awesomness melts the faces of his opponent akin lost ark.

[Doc Scratch]

Nah, that would be against Nintendo's treasured E E10 rating.

A better one would be: Anthony takes of his helmet and smiles. The Wii explodes.

[Chipou]

A better one would be: Anthony takes of his helmet and smiles. The Wii explodes.

but the wii already blows up from being plugged in!


i agree thats MUCH better and player friendly

[KumaOso]

He would be limited solely to very short-range attacks.

There have been plenty of characters with very limited range that have gotten by just fine. Dudley from the Street Fighter series has limited footsies and pokes, but once he gets in, you're dead. And get this, Dudley's a boxer as well.

You need to think of the playstyle that is most suitable for their attributes.

Slightly, off topic, but what do you think this response to a post I made on SmashBoards? I don't bother with him anymore because he's so damn convinced he's right.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php ... ount=35727

[Doc Scratch]

Okay, I'll bite.

Better than filing a complaint for a customer.

The problem is you are an upper level player. You are a hardcore fighting game fan. So things that may help weaker players seem like "dumbing the game down, " such as speed. A slower game isn't bad (and it's only slower compared to Melee). The speed makes it easier for newer players to get into it. But it seems like dumbing down because you are a hardcore player. You think Melee is the "right," speed when it may be too fast for lower end players and those who are trying to get in, and something closer to Brawl is "right.". I can tell you that talking to other people, they find the verses games to be too fast.

My brothers played Melee when they were seven years old. I played Melee when I was nine.

That's not too fast.

But let's look at each of these one by one.

1)Short hops are only used by the top players (I am pretty good and I never short hop). Most people playing wont need it and it's not worth adding an extra button. As far as control go, "keep it simple stupid." The less the better.

Short hops are absolutely necessary for the playstyles of several characters in Melee and Brawl, even at lower levels. See: Captain Falcon, Metaknight, Mewtwo, Falco...

Is it worth adding another button? Well, the Gamecube controller DOES have quite a few redundant buttons...

2)Options should be a sign that this is targeted at hardcore players, not weaker ones. Tether recoveries lock on to ledges and that's good enough for players who just need to recover. Sure, hardcore Smash players may want different, but the point of Smash Brothers is to make a game for the unloved. For the newer players or those who are not hardcore fighting fans.

Um... How does MORE options mean less love for the weaker players?

Besides, tether grabs aren't fun at all for weaker players, as they have to struggle when their favorite character's recovery move sucks in comparison to their friends'. Luckily, only Ivysaur, Olimar, and ZSSamus really suffer from their tether grabs.

3)Only higher level players want less lag. Brawl's makes more sense and weaker players wont notice the few frame change.

Melee was beloved by many casual players despite it having far less lag than Brawl.

If weaker players won't notice the few frame change, why make it slower in the first place? Make the game faster, and weaker players won't mind at all.

4)Wavedashing is one of the worst things to happen to Smash and thank god it got removed. The problem with these is that it gives a technique that will help higher level players beat the lower ones and they have to learn it to compete. To these weaker players, they have two options: learn the technique or quit. Since most of them are not invested heavily into the game, they'll quit. Wavedashing is only fun to those who do it. It is the greatest way to push players away. Many people were afraid of it when online came out as these hardcore players will wreck the weaker ones because they know how to do the technique. In laments terms, it will make Smash Brothers less fun. If anything could have killed Smash, it would be wavedashing.

Wavedashing is the worst thing to happen to Smash? Really?

With Wavedashing, Mewtwo isn't the worst character in Melee (His wavedash is one of his few pros). That's a plus right there. Wavedashing does not give superiority in tactics, but rather, opens up new ones. Unlike L-canceling, Wavedashing really is quite fun to learn. And what's the eventual advantage? Being able to attack in a more versatile manner while moving slower than running speed, for some characters (For others, Wavedashing barely matters at all). That's

Not to mention that with the lag in online play, wavedashing would probably suck.

5)This has nothing to do with the overall game and is just one characters. Besides, Lucas is the easier Ness.

Bullshit. Lucas and Ness play very differently. Ness is an aerial themed character, while Lucas is more of a ground character.
Anyone who calls Lucas an easier Ness does not have much experience playing either.

Anyway, I disagree with your point, KumaOso, at least for Ness. I've played Ness in all three Smash games, and the up-special is a unique and interesting one. As for Lucas, I am ambivalent.

On simple mode: simple mode is the opposite of what to do. To lower players, it waters down the game. It doesn't make it fun for them. They would rather have control over their game.

The problem with Smash is it's hard to make it simpler. It's going to be somewhat complex with the amount of moving around and things you can do. What is preventing Smash from being ones of these games along side games like Mario Kart Wii is one big thing. Playing with people who have never played, it has to do with recovering (most likely why Sakurai made a Dojo post about it). Now, it may never be a 20million seller, but there is a promising future in Smash. I suspect that barrier will be the new innovation for the next Smash.

Yes, keep making the game simpler. Then we can all enjoy the amazingly fun "Super Smash Bros: Press A to win! Gold Edition" game.

KumaOso, I don't like your idea of a beginner mode. Beginner mode exists: It's called playing against other beginners.

Also, Dudley is awesome. Anyone who says otherwise is not awesome British.

[Emperor Ing]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

[Doc Scratch]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

Off-topic, but I hate blue shells.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mario Kart is the Smash scrub's wet dream: You lose for being good at the game.

[Smoking Spoon]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

Off-topic, but I hate blue shells.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mario Kart is the Smash scrub's wet dream: You lose for being good at the game.

Let's not exaggerate this. I mean, in a sense.. if you lose because of this, then you are not good enough haha. The truth is, that you must be excessively hardcore to win all the time , the same goes for Smasheu Broseu.

[KumaOso]

Bullshit. Lucas and Ness play very differently. Ness is an aerial themed character, while Lucas is more of a ground character.
Anyone who calls Lucas an easier Ness does not have much experience playing either.

Anyway, I disagree with your point, KumaOso, at least for Ness. I've played Ness in all three Smash games, and the up-special is a unique and interesting one. As for Lucas, I am ambivalent.

I've played Ness in all three games as well. You probably didn't see it, but this is what I had in mind for PK Thunder:

1. A PK Thunder that functions more or less like the Space Anthros' Up B. This is a weaker attack, but it allows for easier vertical recovery (I couldn't tell you how many times I've died because of that) and also lets them get out of narrow falls like in between Fourside's towers. To do this, you must do Up+B as normal but you must release B immediately (can't think of a good frame window).

2. Hold B down and you get the OG PK Thunder.

Yes, keep making the game simpler. Then we can all enjoy the amazingly fun "Super Smash Bros: Press A to win! Gold Edition" game.

KumaOso, I don't like your idea of a beginner mode. Beginner mode exists: It's called playing against other beginners.

Also, Dudley is awesome. Anyone who says otherwise is not awesome British.

I've thought about it, and I now think it's not that great of an idea. Still, I'd like to see something that you have in BlazBlue, Street Fighter, and soon Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Trial and Tutorial Modes. I doubt many people playing for the first time are going to know you can feint Fox Illusion or that you get two recoveries with Pikachu's Quick Attack.

And I'm not British and I think Dudley is awesome. Hate Balrog though.