Does the manga spoil the illusion for you?

by **Antiquity** » 01.28.10 11:46am

Well, the question as far as the timeline is concerned I think is whether Nintendo decides to make the Prime series really canon or not. It's possible they'll ignore the Prime series entirely, pretend it didn't happen, or just leave it ambiguous.

But either way, Zebes didn't belong to the GF, and she could always use the excuse that the bomb was set to go off by the death of the Mother Brain, not intentionally by Samus. Really, the first time Samus destroyed a planet that the GF had a vested interest in claiming was SR388...

by **sharonlover** » 01.28.10 12:05pm

she didn't really blow up a planet in MZM though (it's a retelling of Metroid remember) and the way I see it, she destroyed the caverns that the pirates had infiltrated, i.e. their base of operations; otherwise, she wouldn't have made it back to Zebes for Super

As for considering the prime series, the only thing she exploded in MP1 was the frigate (well self-destruct). The planet was still their when she left. In MP2, she combined planets, so not technically destroying it since it wasn't suppose to exist in the first place. I haven't finished MP3 yet (yes I know shame on me) so I can't comment there.

If she did literally destroy a planet in MP3 then yes they should know she can make that happen

and please don't spoil that for me...I've kept away from the MP3 conversations for a reason

by **Antiquity** » 01.28.10 6:51pm

Suffice it to say that Fusion is the first time we know of in which our heroine knowingly and intentionally does something the GF will be unhappy about her doing. Samus does leave a swath of devastation in her wake when operating in enemy territory, but she hasn't deliberately destroyed something the GF cared about and wanted until M4.

by **Opium** » 01.28.10 7:00pm

sharonlover wrote:You found a lot of Engrish in that?

I'm using the term 'engrish' incorrectly. What I mean to say is that alot of it is just strange and doesn't make too much sense to me. While it may make more sense to others, you have to admit that the shit is frikkin BIZARRE. Bird grandpa? Maybe I should smoke something before I read it.

by **sharonlover** » 01.28.10 7:22pm

Opium wrote:
sharonlover wrote:You found a lot of Engrish in that?

I'm using the term 'engrish' incorrectly. What I mean to say is that alot of it is just strange and doesn't make too much sense to me. While it may make more sense to others, you have to admit that the shit is frikkin BIZARRE. Bird grandpa? Maybe I should smoke something before I read it.

Oooh lol never noticed that. That was a big discussion/argument that was had in regards to the manga. One of the admins who knows japanese wanted it to be translated literally whereas the original translator snoopy wanted to keep the names at their originals to keep it in a more traditional manga style, tori ojisan which literally means bird grampa in English.

Original:
http://www.metroid-database.com/reader. ... 1e&i=12&s=

Edited:
http://www.metroid-database.com/reader. ... gc&i=11&s=

If you really want to read all the fun it was in the original Chapter 1 discussion topic http://metroid-database.com/forum/viewt ... &sk=t&sd=a but just so you know, my vote was always to keep it as original as possible

but that's just my preference since I'm use to reading manga

by **ChozoBoy** » 01.30.10 12:54am

Funny, I never heard you call for "Metoroido" or "Samusu". z:P

by **Sylux** » 01.30.10 5:15am

CapCom wrote:Regarding the suit, this is how Sakamoto has said the suit functions. It only does this in MZM.

Actually, the BIGGEST problem with the Willpower Suit was in MZM.

When Samus destroys Tourian and escapes, it shows her removing her suit in the cockpit of her ship. Like in Prime, this seems to involve the ship converting the suit into energy and absorbing it, ready for redeployment at will. This is how I always assumed the suit was stored until the manga.

When Samus is shot down by the space pirates, she no longer has her suit. Why not? If the suit was stored inside of her body or in the zero suit, she should still be able to activate it. The fact that she cannot all but EXPLICITLY says that the suit was being stored in the ship, which-in its damaged state-cannot redeploy it. So Samus has to go into the ruins and find another one.

Sakamoto was asked about this blatant manga/MZM contradiction. What was his explanation? To paraphrase:

"After being shot down, Samus was too mentally distraught to recreate the suit."

Um......

Why couldn't she take five and wait until she calmed down to regrow the suit?

Why did she need to go into the ruins and find another suit if there was nothing wrong with the one she had besides a bad mood?

How was the suit able to stay on in Fusion when she was unconscious and dying?

Rage. Pure, unadulterated rage. This is a clear case of just not having the slightest amount of respect for your own creation. Other M is going to have to be pretty damned good before I can let myself forgive Sakamoto.

by **sharonlover** » 01.30.10 9:12am

ChozoBoy wrote:Funny, I never heard you call for "Metoroido" or "Samusu".

That's because there was an official translation for Metoroido and Samusu so there was no need to leave it as the original japanese name. This is only Old Bird's second appearance and we did call him old bird, it was Samus' name for him that was up for debate.

by **FacelessGriffin** » 01.30.10 9:24am

Sylux wrote:
Why couldn't she take five and wait until she calmed down to regrow the suit?

Why did she need to go into the ruins and find another suit if there was nothing wrong with the one she had besides a bad mood?

To be fair, if I was in that situation, I doubt I would actually have the time to sit back and relax for few minutes, especially when my enemies are after me for killing their leaders.

Though, why Sakamoto didn't just use the obvious reason is beyond me.

by **Sylux** » 01.30.10 10:04am

FacelessGriffin wrote:To be fair, if I was in that situation, I doubt I would actually have the time to sit back and relax for few minutes, especially when my enemies are after me for killing their leaders.

Plenty of places to hide on the surface of Zebes. Considering that the suit is meant to be worn in the heat of battle, its mental requirements can't be THAT immense. How long could it take her to calm down enough?

by **Antiquity** » 01.30.10 12:12pm

Well, realistically the suit could not be stored in her body or as part of her zero suit, because kinetic energy still has inertia and momentum - and part of the point of her zero suit is that she does not have the inertia or momentum she has in her power suit. So I always assumed the suit was stored on-board the ship. In fact, even if it were dependent upon her emotional state, it would need to be stored somewhere other than in energy form on Samus' body.

There are plenty of problems with the mental suit in Fusion, too... I mean, seriously, does Samus really think she can beat the SA-X? Or is she in a functional mental state when she considers blowing up the station with herself on board? The whole idea fails when compared to the games.

by **MaiAriSquee** » 02.05.10 5:00pm

Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO.

Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway. :awesome:

... I love that pear.

by **Infinity's End** » 02.08.10 3:42pm

MaiAriSquee wrote:Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO.

Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway.

... I love that pear.

How do you know it's getting retconned? Judging from the trailer, it looks like the tokusatsu-ness of the suit is emphasized more than ever:

And even if you don't like it, it's still canon. Let's not forget about this thread.

by **Maetch** » 02.08.10 4:41pm

I think there may have been some physical damage involved that prevented Samus from resummoning her suit after getting shot down. Maybe a slight-but-restrictive head/brain injury that was only cured after the Chozo test gave her back her suit. As to the Willpower Suit, it's probably little more than an "on/off" function. One focused thought to suit up, and another to remove, and it's set to recognize only intentional suit orders, so no risk of accidental disarming.

My main issue is that ZM and the series implies that there is only ONE power suit for Samus, yet everybody seems to think there are two suits in ZM. I figured that, in ZM, Samus starts out with a limited-function suit, loses it and can't resummon it, then gets it back in its full-powered form after proving herself worthy to use it. There's no "two suits" about it.

Think about this: the Chozo may have trained Samus, but she's still only human. She can turn evil if circumstances allowed, and if she had the full-powered suit then, NO ONE would've been able to stop her. So, until they can be sure she can be trusted with the full-power suit, they restrict its functions, kinda like trial software before buying the full version. Granted, it came close in MP3, but Samus was already proven to be too strong-willed to succumb by then, so there was no danger of her turning evil (canon-wise).

by **Sylux** » 02.08.10 4:48pm

Infinity's End wrote:
MaiAriSquee wrote:Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO.

Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway.

... I love that pear.

How do you know it's getting retconned? Judging from the trailer, it looks like the tokusatsu-ness of the suit is emphasized more than ever:

And even if you don't like it, it's still canon. Let's not forget about this thread.

In the trailer, it looks like the armor is stored inside of the Zero Suit, rather than inside of Samus herself. This is good for two reasons. For one, it does away with the willpower stupidity (though I'm still left scratching my head over the end of MZM). For the other, it explains the purpose of the Zero Suit, which never made a particular amount of sense before.

Anyway, if they retcon the willsuit away (which seems to be the case), I will be happy. If not, I guess I'll just keep living in denial. :awesome:

Antiquity Posts: 478 Joined: 06.25.09 1:25am	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Antiquity » 01.28.10 11:46am Well, the question as far as the timeline is concerned I think is whether Nintendo decides to make the Prime series really canon or not. It's possible they'll ignore the Prime series entirely, pretend it didn't happen, or just leave it ambiguous. But either way, Zebes didn't belong to the GF, and she could always use the excuse that the bomb was set to go off by the death of the Mother Brain, not intentionally by Samus. Really, the first time Samus destroyed a planet that the GF had a vested interest in claiming was SR388...
sharonlover Posts: 2613 Joined: 05.18.07 9:06pm Location: Sterling, Va Website	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by sharonlover » 01.28.10 12:05pm she didn't really blow up a planet in MZM though (it's a retelling of Metroid remember) and the way I see it, she destroyed the caverns that the pirates had infiltrated, i.e. their base of operations; otherwise, she wouldn't have made it back to Zebes for Super As for considering the prime series, the only thing she exploded in MP1 was the frigate (well self-destruct). The planet was still their when she left. In MP2, she combined planets, so not technically destroying it since it wasn't suppose to exist in the first place. I haven't finished MP3 yet (yes I know shame on me) so I can't comment there. If she did literally destroy a planet in MP3 then yes they should know she can make that happen and please don't spoil that for me...I've kept away from the MP3 conversations for a reason "I authorize full use of the Report Button on the MDb Message Boards."
Antiquity Posts: 478 Joined: 06.25.09 1:25am	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Antiquity » 01.28.10 6:51pm Suffice it to say that Fusion is the first time we know of in which our heroine knowingly and intentionally does something the GF will be unhappy about her doing. Samus does leave a swath of devastation in her wake when operating in enemy territory, but she hasn't deliberately destroyed something the GF cared about and wanted until M4.
Opium Posts: 646 Joined: 01.10.10 9:46pm Location: Littleton, CO USA	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Opium » 01.28.10 7:00pm sharonlover wrote:You found a lot of Engrish in that? I'm using the term 'engrish' incorrectly. What I mean to say is that alot of it is just strange and doesn't make too much sense to me. While it may make more sense to others, you have to admit that the shit is frikkin BIZARRE. Bird grandpa? Maybe I should smoke something before I read it.
sharonlover Posts: 2613 Joined: 05.18.07 9:06pm Location: Sterling, Va Website	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by sharonlover » 01.28.10 7:22pm Opium wrote: sharonlover wrote:You found a lot of Engrish in that? I'm using the term 'engrish' incorrectly. What I mean to say is that alot of it is just strange and doesn't make too much sense to me. While it may make more sense to others, you have to admit that the shit is frikkin BIZARRE. Bird grandpa? Maybe I should smoke something before I read it. Oooh lol never noticed that. That was a big discussion/argument that was had in regards to the manga. One of the admins who knows japanese wanted it to be translated literally whereas the original translator snoopy wanted to keep the names at their originals to keep it in a more traditional manga style, tori ojisan which literally means bird grampa in English. Original: http://www.metroid-database.com/reader. ... 1e&i=12&s= Edited: http://www.metroid-database.com/reader. ... gc&i=11&s= If you really want to read all the fun it was in the original Chapter 1 discussion topic http://metroid-database.com/forum/viewt ... &sk=t&sd=a but just so you know, my vote was always to keep it as original as possible but that's just my preference since I'm use to reading manga "I authorize full use of the Report Button on the MDb Message Boards."
ChozoBoy Posts: 339 Joined: 10.25.07 6:31pm Location: NJ Website www.facebook.com/ChozoBoy	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by ChozoBoy » 01.30.10 12:54am Funny, I never heard you call for "Metoroido" or "Samusu". Cosmic History, 2100 AD "The vast expanse of the Milky Way Galaxy is unfathomable. It has seen empires rise and fall, wars rage and peace reign. Many of its mysteries have been discovered only to slip back into obscurity."
Sylux	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Sylux » 01.30.10 5:15am CapCom wrote:Regarding the suit, this is how Sakamoto has said the suit functions. It only does this in MZM. Actually, the BIGGEST problem with the Willpower Suit was in MZM. When Samus destroys Tourian and escapes, it shows her removing her suit in the cockpit of her ship. Like in Prime, this seems to involve the ship converting the suit into energy and absorbing it, ready for redeployment at will. This is how I always assumed the suit was stored until the manga. When Samus is shot down by the space pirates, she no longer has her suit. Why not? If the suit was stored inside of her body or in the zero suit, she should still be able to activate it. The fact that she cannot all but EXPLICITLY says that the suit was being stored in the ship, which-in its damaged state-cannot redeploy it. So Samus has to go into the ruins and find another one. Sakamoto was asked about this blatant manga/MZM contradiction. What was his explanation? To paraphrase: "After being shot down, Samus was too mentally distraught to recreate the suit." Um...... Why couldn't she take five and wait until she calmed down to regrow the suit? Why did she need to go into the ruins and find another suit if there was nothing wrong with the one she had besides a bad mood? How was the suit able to stay on in Fusion when she was unconscious and dying? Rage. Pure, unadulterated rage. This is a clear case of just not having the slightest amount of respect for your own creation. Other M is going to have to be pretty damned good before I can let myself forgive Sakamoto.
sharonlover Posts: 2613 Joined: 05.18.07 9:06pm Location: Sterling, Va Website	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by sharonlover » 01.30.10 9:12am ChozoBoy wrote:Funny, I never heard you call for "Metoroido" or "Samusu". That's because there was an official translation for Metoroido and Samusu so there was no need to leave it as the original japanese name. This is only Old Bird's second appearance and we did call him old bird, it was Samus' name for him that was up for debate. "I authorize full use of the Report Button on the MDb Message Boards."
FacelessGriffin Posts: 460 Joined: 08.01.09 10:22am Location: On a mission to defy God...	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by FacelessGriffin » 01.30.10 9:24am Sylux wrote: Why couldn't she take five and wait until she calmed down to regrow the suit? Why did she need to go into the ruins and find another suit if there was nothing wrong with the one she had besides a bad mood? To be fair, if I was in that situation, I doubt I would actually have the time to sit back and relax for few minutes, especially when my enemies are after me for killing their leaders. Though, why Sakamoto didn't just use the obvious reason is beyond me.
Sylux	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Sylux » 01.30.10 10:04am FacelessGriffin wrote:To be fair, if I was in that situation, I doubt I would actually have the time to sit back and relax for few minutes, especially when my enemies are after me for killing their leaders. Plenty of places to hide on the surface of Zebes. Considering that the suit is meant to be worn in the heat of battle, its mental requirements can't be THAT immense. How long could it take her to calm down enough?
Antiquity Posts: 478 Joined: 06.25.09 1:25am	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Antiquity » 01.30.10 12:12pm Well, realistically the suit could not be stored in her body or as part of her zero suit, because kinetic energy still has inertia and momentum - and part of the point of her zero suit is that she does not have the inertia or momentum she has in her power suit. So I always assumed the suit was stored on-board the ship. In fact, even if it were dependent upon her emotional state, it would need to be stored somewhere other than in energy form on Samus' body. There are plenty of problems with the mental suit in Fusion, too... I mean, seriously, does Samus really think she can beat the SA-X? Or is she in a functional mental state when she considers blowing up the station with herself on board? The whole idea fails when compared to the games.
MaiAriSquee Posts: 1852 Joined: 05.21.07 10:09pm Location: USA Website	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by MaiAriSquee » 02.05.10 5:00pm Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO. Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway. ... I love that pear. Satch wrote:What does she think Metroid is? A porno? Does she know it's Alien with Crayola crayons?
Infinity's End Posts: 4510 Joined: 05.05.07 11:04am Location: Austin, TX http://steamcommunity.com/id/infinitysend/ Website https://twitter.com/infinitys_end	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Infinity's End » 02.08.10 3:42pm MaiAriSquee wrote:Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO. Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway. ... I love that pear. How do you know it's getting retconned? Judging from the trailer, it looks like the tokusatsu-ness of the suit is emphasized more than ever: And even if you don't like it, it's still canon. Let's not forget about this thread. Visit our DA Gallery! Over 2,000 unique artworks and growing!
Maetch Posts: 637 Joined: 06.06.08 11:29am	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Maetch » 02.08.10 4:41pm I think there may have been some physical damage involved that prevented Samus from resummoning her suit after getting shot down. Maybe a slight-but-restrictive head/brain injury that was only cured after the Chozo test gave her back her suit. As to the Willpower Suit, it's probably little more than an "on/off" function. One focused thought to suit up, and another to remove, and it's set to recognize only intentional suit orders, so no risk of accidental disarming. My main issue is that ZM and the series implies that there is only ONE power suit for Samus, yet everybody seems to think there are two suits in ZM. I figured that, in ZM, Samus starts out with a limited-function suit, loses it and can't resummon it, then gets it back in its full-powered form after proving herself worthy to use it. There's no "two suits" about it. Think about this: the Chozo may have trained Samus, but she's still only human. She can turn evil if circumstances allowed, and if she had the full-powered suit then, NO ONE would've been able to stop her. So, until they can be sure she can be trusted with the full-power suit, they restrict its functions, kinda like trial software before buying the full version. Granted, it came close in MP3, but Samus was already proven to be too strong-willed to succumb by then, so there was no danger of her turning evil (canon-wise). = Ultimate Warrior = Ultimate Warrior Therefore, = Now you know why they call it Metroid. --- This is the song, written for the chase scene! This is the song, Samus and James! He tri-ied to kill me with a forklift! (Ole!)
Sylux	Re: Does the manga spoil the illusion for you? by Sylux » 02.08.10 4:48pm Infinity's End wrote: MaiAriSquee wrote:Yeah, I like Sakamoto, but the said "Willpower Suit" is a stupid idea, IMO. Well, looks like its getting retconned in M:OM anyway. ... I love that pear. How do you know it's getting retconned? Judging from the trailer, it looks like the tokusatsu-ness of the suit is emphasized more than ever: And even if you don't like it, it's still canon. Let's not forget about this thread. In the trailer, it looks like the armor is stored inside of the Zero Suit, rather than inside of Samus herself. This is good for two reasons. For one, it does away with the willpower stupidity (though I'm still left scratching my head over the end of MZM). For the other, it explains the purpose of the Zero Suit, which never made a particular amount of sense before. Anyway, if they retcon the willsuit away (which seems to be the case), I will be happy. If not, I guess I'll just keep living in denial.

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