Does the manga spoil the illusion for you?

[Shinespark]

In the trailer, it looks like the armor is stored inside of the Zero Suit, rather than inside of Samus herself.

Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw that trailer. It looks to me as if the Zero Suit IS the Power suit but on standby. And using nano-technology, each molecule of the Zero Suit somehow reconfigure themselves to form a more durable alloy. The only problem with this theory though is the fact that in SM and Fusion, Samus clearly doesn't wear the Zero Suit under her power suit as seen in her 'death' sequences.

But really, I think Nintendo themselves constantly change their minds on how the suit actually works. I mean by now, they should have realised that the biggest market for the series is in the West, where this Power Ranger type suit isn't quite as accepted as they might hope. So the solution would be to find a compromise between the two. Making the Power suit into the Ironman suit would be going way too far, but I like how they've at least TRIED to make the mechanism believable in that trailer.

[Infinity's End]

In the trailer, it looks like the armor is stored inside of the Zero Suit, rather than inside of Samus herself.

I think that's a fair conclusion to come up with, seeing as that beam of light shoots directly from the symbol on her left breast (near her heart, if that means anything). However, I slightly doubt that means we can imply that it's "stored directly" within the confines of the Zero Suit. This would mean that she would have to be wearing the Zero Suit at all times in the manga, which she clearly does not. Also, while that could give the ZSS a realized function, I think it only serves the purpose of her gaining access to her suit more easily. Like, perhaps it's the "oil" to help her be in a state of mind to control the suit? The ZS could unify the cells within her skin/body which in turn could grant her ease of "turning on/off" the suit.

I know you guys really detest the notion of the "Willpower Suit" but it really doesn't bother me. The game doesn't really fall into a realism category, so why fight it? What ounce of realistic credibility does the series really have? It's about as fantasy as sci-fi can get. Does it really make Samus's suit seem "less cool?" What's one more question left answered to "Crazy, unfathomable Chozo magic-technology?"

[Maetch]

I know you guys really detest the notion of the "Willpower Suit" but it really doesn't bother me. The game doesn't really fall into a realism category, so why fight it? What ounce of realistic credibility does the series really have? It's about as fantasy as sci-fi can get. Does it really make Samus's suit seem "less cool?" What's one more question left answered to "Crazy, unfathomable Chozo magic-technology?"

I have no problems with it. I just think the whole concept isn't nearly as complex as everybody else theorizes. One thought, suit goes on. One thought, suit comes off. No more complex than a lightswitch.

As to HOW it works... well, that's just something that can't be logically explained... yet.

I know you guys really detest the notion of the "Willpower Suit" but it really doesn't bother me. The game doesn't really fall into a realism category, so why fight it? What ounce of realistic credibility does the series really have? It's about as fantasy as sci-fi can get. Does it really make Samus's suit seem "less cool?" What's one more question left answered to "Crazy, unfathomable Chozo magic-technology?"

Its not really a question of realism. Neither explanation is remotely scientifically plausible. However, making an armorsuit that runs on willpower doesn't make sense even within the context of a scientifically unrealistic universe, because its blatantly self-defeating. Warfare is innately stressful; combat armor that stops working as soon as its wearer feels unhappy is just about the most pointless piece of technology imaginable.

I guess it also partly comes down to aesthetics. Compare Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Both totally fantasy stories, but one of them has enough technological trappings to give it at least a pseudo-scifi feel. Internally-stored Power Ranger armor fueled by willpower is a lot less pseudo-scientific than the rest of the Metroid universe, and feels out of place for that reason. The armor coming out of a machine (like her ship, or the zero suit) just seems more "metroidy" than the Power Rangers deal. Obviously Sakamoto is the guy who decides what constitutes "metroidy," but even he can't retroactively change the atmosphere and aesthetic of the older games.

[Antiquity]

My problem with the Willpower Suit is that it seems to me to be basically invincible, and it totally ruins the games, both from a gameplay standpoint and from a story standpoint if Samus is invincible.

To make the analogy, if I were going to be making a Metroid movie, the genre would be a sci-fi action-horror similar to the Alien movies, which doubtless were a substantial part of the inspiration for Metroid. Before anybody writes a novel-length Metroid fanfic, I would recommend the writer be at least passingly familiar with the writing and mythos of H. P. Lovecraft, for the same reason.

Samus is, and should be, the galaxy's last, best, hope - but she is still the last hope, and while she is a hope, it's hardly a given that she will succeed. Samus' natural physical and mental abilities should push the envelope of what is humanly possible, and her Chozo power suit is the envy of every infantryman in the galaxy in sporting both potent and versatile firepower, amazing durability, and even more amazing special capabilities. Yet, the enemies she faces are more formidable still, and even the lesser, more mundane foes, the space pirate troopers and their robots, or even mere beasts like sidehoppers or sheegoths, still pose a threat to her despite her obvious material and tactical superiority. Samus is able to save the universe, Samus is also human, mortal, and capable of failure. Metroid is not light-hearted the way Star Fox is.

The idea of a willpower-based power level is too self reinforcing to make this vision a reality. A confident warrior would never lose, because her willpower-based suit would give her whatever power she needed to succeed. A despairing warrior would never win, for the same reason. Samus can lose, no matter how confident she may be, and she can also win, no matter how desperate.

This is illustrated perfectly in Zero Mission: Samus is indeed bereft of confidence when she is shot down, yet she can still defeat the Chozo engraving's test of ingenuity and prowess. And yet, even with the legendary power suit with its legendary weapons, just play on hard mode and you will learn how challenging Mecha Ridley can be - and to top it off, Mecha Ridley is a just a security robot, not a metroid, or any other galaxy-destroying monster.

[Infinity's End]

Sylux & Antiquity: I read your reasonings, but they still don't come anywhere close to giving me enough of a convincing edge on why the Willpower suit is a bad idea. Samus is basically invincible. "Death" as in the games' version of death, basically means YOU, as a player, fucked up somehow, and now you're paying the consequence of having to start back at your last save. But we all know that Samus never really died. I'm taking a big guess here in saying that when the Space Pirates shot down her ship by piercing straight through with whatever kind of beam that was, it pierced her hull, and possibly damaged herself, and the suit. Her suit saved her, in this case, but she was weakened enough to make her unable to use it. Doing the Chozo Ghost trial could have also healed any injuries, both physical and psychological, that may have occurred since her crash. This would all have been explained easily if there was 1 more image of her actually crawling out of the ship rubble, possibly her suit disappearing from her body at that moment, but unfortunately all we get is an image of her backside staring at the crash in the rain.

I'm pretty certain Sakamoto and the rest of the crew that have been designing Metroid all these years expected her to gain access to her suit in a tokusatsu-style from the very beginning, or at least very early on (possibly II on). So you guys can fight it all you want, but that's just the way it is (unless it's explained differently somehow in Other M).

[Antiquity]

In that case, I could ask "why do we enjoy playing Metroid?"


While it's true that, in the story, Samus does not die, it is also an obvious fact that she believes that she could - it just so happens that she doesn't. She says in Zero Mission "would I survive long enough to escape?", and in Fusion she says that "I must send them [the X] into oblivion. Them, the station, and myself, if I have to." These statements are conclusive proof that Samus does not believe herself to be invincible, and therefore, she cannot be. This would still be true were this a novel, and there were no game mechanics to worry about whatsoever. The gameplay mechanics are almost beside the point.

Now, I'm not arguing exactly where Samus keeps her suit, rather that it has vulnerabilities that do not require her consent. I actually think it is not that unreasonable that she does keep it locked away in some alternate dimension - after all, we know that the Chozo are multidimensional beings, and that Samus has some kind of Chozo infusion that makes her a human-Chozo hybrid. Perhaps this is the psionic power that she acquires as a result of this: the ability to move her power suit in and out of the reality we are familiar with. But something has to have damaged it when she got shot down in Zero Mission so that she couldn't use it, and it has to disarticulate/dissolve/go wherever it normally resides should it runs out of energy - even if that never actually happens because Samus is too skilled and/or lucky.

I'm pretty certain Sakamoto and the rest of the crew that have been designing Metroid all these years expected her to gain access to her suit in a tokusatsu-style from the very beginning, or at least very early on (possibly II on). So you guys can fight it all you want, but that's just the way it is (unless it's explained differently somehow in Other M).

That's certainly possible. I'm not sure if I'd say probable, based on their (and Nintendo's in general) reputation for retconning, but possible.

In either case, its basically a problem of miscommunication. For the first decade and a half of Metroid's existence, they weren't clear about the workings of the game universe. They left tantalizing little hints, which fans used to fuel their creativity and come up with a wide array of speculations, some of which remained in place long enough and gained enough popularity to become pseudo-canon in their own right. Now, Sakamoto and his crew are finally revealing the official story, and its not what a lot of people were expecting or wanting.

That isn't anyone's fault, per se. But the thing is, if all the information in the manga was available from the beginning, I probably wouldn't have taken in interest in the plot of Metroid at all. I'd have liked it purely for gameplay reasons, sure, but it definitely wouldn't have the same place in my geeky heart that it does today. So yes, I KNOW what the game canon is, I KNOW the willpower suit is official (and possibly a long time in coming), but the fact that I wasn't made aware of this back in the day makes me feel a bit let-down (of course, I'm still not going to admit that the willpower suit was planned from the beginning. There are too many in-game moments that seem to contradict it).

So, in terms of my fan fiction, I'm going to keep going with the "fan Ultimate Universe" angle.

But we all know that Samus never really died. I'm taking a big guess here in saying that when the Space Pirates shot down her ship by piercing straight through with whatever kind of beam that was, it pierced her hull, and possibly damaged herself, and the suit. Her suit saved her, in this case, but she was weakened enough to make her unable to use it.

But she wasn't WEARING the suit at the time. She was in the zero suit. Its possible she could have reactivated the armor for a moment to absorb the damage, but if so the game should have made it much more clear. The impression I got from it is that Sakamoto just doesn't care about being consistent, which makes it that much easier to not take official canon seriously.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to not like the recent canon. If you like it, good for you. I'm just trying to explain why I don't.

[Antiquity]

I wouldn't say that the manga is even canonical yet. It's never been officially released outside of Japan.

I'll give an example of how this is relevant. The lore scans of Prime as it was released in the United States state that Metroid Prime was a creature that the space pirates found roaming the tunnels down in the impact crater, which they thought was a metroid, and captured, and began running experiments on, attaching their weaponry to it. Later, its weaponry fused into the creature, and later still it escaped, going back into the core of the impact crater, until Samus finds it at the end of the game.

By contrast, in the European release, the space pirates are able to detect via scans that there is some sort of powerful living creature deep underneath the impact crater, but they cannot reach it because it is inside of the seal created by the Chozo. The pirates' final lore concerning the matter states that when they have recovered all of the Chozo artifacts, they will open the temple and the massive concentrations of phazon under the seal, as well as the enigmatic creature, will be theirs.

Obviously, both of these games have been released and are official. Yet, they disagree on the origins of the title character of the game. So which one is canonical? Does it not depend on whether you live in the United States or Europe? If it does depend on where you live, then how is the canonicity of the MZM manga not another example of the same situation, i.e. canonical in Japan, but not elsewhere?

[Triforce of the Gods]

That was more of a matter of Retro screwed up and fixed it in both the European releases and the Trilogy releases. As long as we get accurate translations of the manga, I see no reason not to hold it canon (unless it is in the same category as the Zelda manga where Nintendo gave the OK and didn't supervise whatsoever, leading to contradictions and fan-fiction, but I heard that wasn't the case with the Metroid manga).

[gigatravis]

Judging by the way Other M looks, I don't think there is going to be an "illusion" for much longer.

[Antiquity]

Hey guys,

I read through the interview questions with Sakamoto here, and Sakamoto sounds more reasonable than I think might have been implied earlier in this discussion.

We know that the Chozo are psionic creatures, and that Samus has Chozo something inside of her. Suppose that Samus' power suit exists in another dimension, and in order to call on it, she has to exert her psionic powers, possibly the only psionic powers she has, and doing that requires great willpower and concentration. That still doesn't explain why she lost the suit in Zero Mission and had to recover it somehow; I don't buy that she was "too emotionally distraught". However, it would make more sense from the prospective of the argument that I was making: there are ways to hurt/kill Samus or her power suit without playing with her emotions.

Hey guys,

I read through the interview questions with Sakamoto here, and Sakamoto sounds more reasonable than I think might have been implied earlier in this discussion.

We know that the Chozo are psionic creatures, and that Samus has Chozo something inside of her. Suppose that Samus' power suit exists in another dimension, and in order to call on it, she has to exert her psionic powers, possibly the only psionic powers she has, and doing that requires great willpower and concentration. That still doesn't explain why she lost the suit in Zero Mission and had to recover it somehow; I don't buy that she was "too
emotionally distraught". However, it would make more sense from the prospective of the argument that I was making: there are ways to hurt/kill Samus or her power suit without playing with her emotions.

Ah, that is indeed better. Also goes a ways toward explaining the morphball, with the ability to hide mass in extra-spacial dimensions. It also hints at how the Tallon IV cultists were able to abandon their native spacial reality, if they already had some understanding of how dimensional physics worked (I've long suspected that the Tallon colony was still very scientific, even if they weren't technological).

I'm a good deal happier with the suit mechanics now. Though I do still wish they'd be more consistent about it...

[Antiquity]

There is more cool stuff in there too, like:

In the "Metroid" manga, it describes that "The Chozo developed the Metroids in order to exterminate the X living on SR-388", but I think it was previously established that "there is a high probability that the Metroid destroyed the civilization on SR-388." I think it was the X that really destroyed SR-388.

I think SR-388's civilization was destroyed and the Chozo left for Zebes after the Metroids were released into the wild (became feral). The Galactic Federation, not knowing the reason why the Metroids were developed, requested Samus to clean them up ("Metroid II"). The result of Samus exterminating the Metroids was that the propagation of the X could permit the SR-388 ecosystem to be destroyed ("Metroid Fusion").

That's not actually unlike your Tamatros Chozo lore fic - Chozo lost control of metroids in war with X, and evacuated the planet.

And...

My question is, what does Samus do when she's not on a mission? I'd like to know!

Samus is always a very enigmatic character to so many people. Please let us know what you think she does!

Can there be a clearer statement that Samus' personality is ours to imagine?

[MaiAriSquee]

Sylux & Antiquity: I read your reasonings, but they still don't come anywhere close to giving me enough of a convincing edge on why the Willpower suit is a bad idea.

I don't think anyone is trying to change your mind, we're just trying to explain why we feel the way we do about it.

Personally, I just think a physically based suit provides cooler imagery than a Power Ranger transform. There's tons of fanart of Samus coming out of the suit or being half in, or tending to it in some way. For me, it implies complex engineering, whereas the other implies "magic suit."

However, I suppose that doesn't necessarily have to be true. I haven't read that little interview yet (I think), but I like the idea that it's stored someplace else and Samus needs to summon it. Or that just because it's summoned via "willpower" or whatever, doesn't mean it doesn't have that implied mechanical complexity.