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CapCom

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Postby CapCom » 06.06.08 10:17am

If you translate the manga into Portuguese, we will host the translation.

You can translate the text however you feel is best. Sometimes decisions have to be made for localization purposes if the name translates as something which might be considered offensive, though in the original meaning, Old Bird is a venerable (though familiar) title, so if you feel you must localize it, you should alter the term to retain that venerability. However, you should always use your best judgment and put your best effort into making the translation as good as possible.

I won't have any clue as to how well your translation will be as I can't speak Portuguese, so we'll just have to take your word for it. Bear in mind though that I have not been satisfied with the current translation into English (which will be your source material) and have posted various reasons elsewhere on the forum.
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sharonlover

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Postby sharonlover » 06.06.08 11:06am

Just out of curiosity Capcom,

You seem to be pretty good with Japanese from my understanding with such dislikes on the translation as expressed from Chapter 1 and 2 forum discussions so why not just translate it yourself? Or if nothing else as I suggested in the beginning to contact my translator via the snoopycool forums to get clarification on how/why they translated something in that way?

I personally wish I knew Japanese to translate it myself, but my abilities to be able to do that right now is very limited and can only go by what's been given to me. I personally think that the translation has been held fairly close to what we do know about the series.

Do you feel it has been mistranslated that badly?

Again just curious (i know the above sounds like i'm getting defensive which is not the case, just a curious question).
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CapCom

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Postby CapCom » 06.06.08 1:01pm

Well, I know a bit in a few areas from all the classes I took, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to do a translation this big. If I were to attempt this, it would undoubtedly take longer (considering the translation I did last week for another site took a good six hours for three paragraphs, and even then I'm convinced it could have been done better). The more vocabulary you have and the greater the grasp of the grammar, the faster you can do these things.

That said, my concerns with the translation have been primarily in regards to the sentence structure but also to a variety of cultural nuances. I'm still not 100% clear if this was the work of the translator or the editor, but many of the sentences in the manga are very awkward and only make sense if you have some grasp of Japanese. They simply do not read well in English. The cultural nuances such as onomatopoeia (which are, of course, always tricky) and some of the naming conventions I have also talked about. Again, I'm not sure if this is a product of the translation or editing process.

I believe you've stated in previous messages that the sentence structure and cultural nuances were all things that were integral to the translation style being used. I still do not believe it is a good style, even if a similar form is employed by a major publisher, but you are obviously sticking with it despite my opinions.

In terms of how closely the translation has been done, I have recently developed some doubts about this as well, though initially I thought it was just some wording issues with the sentence structure. I checked the original version of some passages that I felt were incredibly awkward or obscure and found some vocabulary that was not used in the translation. Part of this may just be the level of my grasp of the language, but the dictionary I was using seemed pretty clear (and no, it wasn't Google :P I rely primarily on Hadamitzky-Spahn as Norton's a bit of a clunker. And no e-dictionary for me :metroid:).

Again, I'm not sure who did what in the translation process anymore as I've heard one thing said and then another seemingly contradictory statement. All I know is I am not satisfied with the way the translation has gone, even if it has been in large part understandable to English-speaking audiences. I've certainly seen worse translations (never watch a Japanese DVD that's been dubbed in Hong Kong - or at least not the company that did Wonderful Sunday). But I've also seen better.
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Postby sharonlover » 06.06.08 1:31pm

after the long discussion of Chapter 1 and 2, the only thing I do with the translation is ensure that the words we know like "Protector of the Milky Way" get changed to "Protector of the Galaxy" and any other words like that. Other then that, I took a step back and just copy/paste into my text box and try to make sure that the sentence makes sense.

again, i'm no grammar major and being that I've been reading manga for what seems like forever, I have become "use" to the way they structure sentences. Anyhow....after chapter two it pretty much goes like this for an average scanlation. The first two chapters were my "test" so it was kinda thrown around for a while. The process is differ between scan groups but my particular projects follow:

The translator draws up a translation of the text. Once the translation is done, it goes to snoopy who checks it over to make sure the translation is good and makes any changes that aren't right. (Chronocation is newer to the translation scene and snoopy has been doing it since snoopycool went on line at the least). So basically the translation goes through two seperate people, one to check against the other.

After that, I have another person who proofs the spelling and grammar. Compared to the first part of the translation (it all gets updated in a forum thread) by the time you all get it, it's much more easily readible.

My job as the editor is to simply scan, clean said scans, crop the edges appropriately and paste in the text and redraw backgrounds if needed (not usually the case with the Metroid one thankfully).

anyhow...I was just curious
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Postby AMetroidGuy » 06.06.08 3:32pm

Lord Darth Naner wrote:Well, my vacation starts in July, I'll start working on it then. Now, I have a play to rehersal(06/26), a piano recital(06/21), and a few school projects.

But, can the MDb host our translations?

EDIT: When I translate Old Bird(and possibly Grey Voice), should I put the actual meaning of old bird("velho pássaro") or leave it Old Bird? Old bird in Portuguese sounds kinda offensive.
If the literal translation of Old Bird sounds offensive, try something witha similar meaning, like “Sage Bird”( sage being an adjective meaning wise, not the plant).
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Postby Naner » 06.06.08 4:09pm

Hmm... Sage Bird sounds good... Now I'm in doubt for Sage Bird or Grandpa Bird. I'll see with my friends what they think.
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Postby Silver Skree » 06.06.08 4:19pm

maybe Elder Bird?

Elder seems a little more respectful than old...

Naner

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Postby Naner » 06.06.08 4:32pm

Nah, elder would be like ancient.
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CapCom

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Postby CapCom » 06.06.08 5:18pm

Old Bird is referred to in two different ways.

Samus is allowed to speak to Old Bird as 'Grandpa' or 'Grandpa Bird' because she is a friendly child (and Old Bird adopts her as a grandfather figure). I don't know if she stops calling him that by the end of the manga, but by the end of Chapter 2, she simply calls him 'Grandpa'.

Other Chozo and humans refer to Old Bird as 'Old Bird' as that is his formal name. He undoubtedly had a different name before this, but it was later changed to the current honorific.

There was a discussion that went into greater detail here regarding the use of 'Tori Oji-chan' versus 'Granpa Bird':

http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/fo ... .php?t=851

I believe there are couple instances in the second chapter where the translation uses 'Tori Oji-chan' when 'Oji-chan' (Grandpa) was in the original Japanese, but it's been awhile since I read it.
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Postby Newborn » 08.15.08 3:40am

hey, I know some japanese.
i've taken 2 years of it and did some studying of my own, since I really want to become fluent.
I could help you guys out in this project. I am however working on another manga scanlation, and that is my priority right now. but I will lend a hand when needed :)

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Postby sharonlover » 08.15.08 5:09am

Hi newborn ^_^

thanks for the offer, I've got translations pretty well covered with a fellow snoopycool translator.

I've had problems with people not liking the way this is getting translated, so come my next Metroid manga I do ( even with the arguments and frustration I still want to do more) want to do the Super Metroid 4 Panel comics (as well as the street fighter and zelda comic that's in the same book) as well as the Samus and Jimmy manga.

I actually have all of these and once the Metroid Manga is completed will probably work on those. So if you're still around then I may see if you want to translate it.

This goes for anyone else who knows Japanese. I would like to see who here is confident enough in their ability to be able to help with these translations. I'd rather have people who can react to their translations then this individual no one gets to rant to about the way they translate something.

Sooo when the time comes I will be looking.

OH Naner...did you ever get your translation off the ground?
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CapCom

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Postby CapCom » 08.15.08 10:03am

Good luck on your translation, Newborn! Try not to be daunted by the size of the manga - it's ginormous! One page at a time adds up as the days go by... Or as they say in Japanese:

Chiri mo tsumoreba...yama to naru!

I also don't think you should completely ignore the other translations out there, as they can help you when you get stuck on a particular passage. Just remember that not all of them are the same! Mechadrake's differs from Snoopycool's and Metroidhat.com's differs from Snoopycool's as well! I WILL say though that the translation Metroid Hat has for Chapter 5 is COMPLETELY unreliable. So if something doesn't agree between two translations (and there will be a LOT!) use your best judgment from the information available!

The other big thing to think about doing translation is to translate what the Japanese author wrote rather than to put down what you think should go there! There's a difference between what they say and what they meant and what you'd like them to say :) Other than that, a lot of it comes down to style.

For tools, I use my Spahn-Hadamitzky kanji compound dictionary. You can look kanji up in reverse order, so if you know what the second kanji in a compound is (or find it easier to look up) then you can get the compound fairly quickly! Bar anything but an electronic dictionary, it's the best (well, unless you're looking for word histories, in which case the Nelson's is probably better). I'm not sold on my Japanese-English dictionary, but Kodansha's Furigana is pretty good, though incomplete (useful more for conversation than translating this manga!). I did, however, recently discover a Japanese-English dictionary for the Japanese which looks fairly promising, but haven't had time to look through it all the way. A straight-up Japanese dictionary though may be too complex to use, though it is useful in VERY limited situations.

And Sharonlover, regarding the Snoopycool translation, as much as I'll complain on certain points, it's actually very confident. I've noticed a few points where the translation was questionable, but most of my complaints probably just come down to stylistic issues as what the text says and what's written in the translation tend to agree. Ultimately, I overall trust yours more than I do Metroid Hat, particularly after examining Chapter 5! The translator literally just seems to have put in whatever he felt they were saying! (Your scans are also much better, too). While many people are satisfied with any translation, we always need to be aware of how accurate it is foremost. There's a big difference to saying 'he's a cat' and 'he's a dog.' I think the rest comes down to the "style" of translation we'd like to see, and we've of course had endless debate about that. So just because all I tend to talk about is the things I dislike, rest assured that anything I don't talk about I probably approve of quite highly!

I will say though that if you are going to be pursuing the rest of the manga, I may be interested in volunteering my efforts towards its completion. I'll also say that there will be some other things coming down the pipe here over the next week or so that you (and everyone else, for that matter!) may find quite interesting...
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando


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