Necessary Changes to Next Smash Bros.

[Dragonheart91]

What the hell are Space Anthros or OG PK Thunder? You keep talking about shit like that, and google has nothing to say about the matter. Using language so obscure that google can't find it is ridiculous.

[KumaOso]

Space Anthros - Starfox characters. If I said space furries you'd probably figure it out.

OG PK Thunder - My name for PK Thunder as it currently is.

[Drana]

Space Anthros - Starfox characters. If I said space furries you'd probably figure it out.

I'm pretty sure they are simply referred to as the "Space Animals".

[ph00tbag]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

Off-topic, but I hate blue shells.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mario Kart is the Smash scrub's wet dream: You lose for being good at the game.

I'm not sure about later Mario Kart games, but couldn't you jump the blue shells in MK64?

[Maetch]

I'm not sure about later Mario Kart games, but couldn't you jump the blue shells in MK64?

I'm sure you could, but then they added wings to those shells.

[SpareChange]

I can blue shell dodge

[Doc Scratch]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

Off-topic, but I hate blue shells.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mario Kart is the Smash scrub's wet dream: You lose for being good at the game.

I'm not sure about later Mario Kart games, but couldn't you jump the blue shells in MK64?

In later games, the blue shells home in on you from the air and then collide with either you or the ground next to you, exploding in a large radius and causing instant incapacitation.

[ph00tbag]

Right alongside Mario Kart Wii2, or "get in last place to win by default!"

Off-topic, but I hate blue shells.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mario Kart is the Smash scrub's wet dream: You lose for being good at the game.

I'm not sure about later Mario Kart games, but couldn't you jump the blue shells in MK64?

In later games, the blue shells home in on you from the air and then collide with either you or the ground next to you, exploding in a large radius and causing instant incapacitation.

Y'know, a few years ago, I was a huge Nintendo fanboy. These days, I find myself feeling more and more alienated by the minute.

Worse, I know they don't give a damn about that, because they're raking in the dough.

[TheBlackCat]

Edit: I wrote a lot on this, but this is, frankly, a pointless argument, and I should not have started it, so I apologize for dragging it out so long. There are probably move sets that you could come up with for Dark Samus that would be different than Samus and reasonably faithful. I couldn't think of any, so I didn't put it in the list. That doesn't mean others can't come up with any, and I shouldn't try to discourage others from doing so. I have some disagreements on certain aspects of the proposed move set, but that doesn't contradict the overall point that such a move-set is possible, nor does it mean the proposed move set is bad.

I've left the post up for the sake of openness (especially since Dragonheart already responded to it), but I don't think it helps the discussion so I ask that you kindly disregard it.

[spoiler]Doc Scratch wrote:
-The "Transform into dust" special is an up-B special, like ROB and Pit's flight. Not a multiple jump like Kirby's "flight."

It doesn't matter, she would still be unkillable by anything but an off-screen KO.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-The beam special is NOTHING like Samus' neutral special, other than being a projectile. It's more like a ranged Falcon Punch/Warlock Punch, without the sheer power.
-The special is overpowered only if the chargeup time is low enough or knockback are high enough. I did not specify either of those factors beyond musing that warlock punch startup time is probably best.

It can hit multiple characters simultaneously, and can be aimed in any direction. Even without the charge and knockback it would be way overpowered.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-The Up-B also leaves DS in a helpless state, meaning she is unable to attack afterwards.

Okay, but it still makes her way too hard to beat.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-No lag is a huge factor (Rolls take time). The down-B would be useful simply for that.

If it didn't have lag, it would make you invincible to short-range attacks.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-The SimCity Assist Trophy would be broken because it has extremely high knockback. Dark Samus' Up-smash does not. Also, there would be some starting lag, like ANY up-Smash.

Fair enough. It would still be able to hit multiple characters simultaneously, even through platforms (it would be infeasible to program if it didn't). That lone makes it pretty overpowered.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-The Down-aerial could NOT be used after an up-B, since up-B leaves DS in a helpless state.

Fair enough

Doc Scratch wrote:
-It's not overpowered at all. Compare to Zero Suit Samus/Sonic's down-aerial, which are hideously underpowered. In fact, this down-aerial might be even WORSE, since it doesn't do any damage or high knockback until it hits the ground.

You are talking about giving a medium character an attack similar to DK's down+b, but making it fast and able to be done from the air. I would say that is overpowered.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-The crouch makes her invisible, not invincible.

On medium-to-large stages this is the same thing.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-She moves at a WALKING pace. That's not fast.

I think it is plenty fast enough to highly unbalance the character. She can vanish and then go somewhere out of the way to hide until everyone has finished each other off. There would be no way to find her, and she could move away if anyone get too close.

Doc Scratch wrote:
-She's a larger target than any other crawling character, since she just hunches over.

A target you can't see isn't much of a target.

Doc Scratch wrote:
Not that any of that matters, since all I did was prove that Dark Samus plays NOTHING like normal Samus.

As I said, I was assuming Dark Samus actually had a reasonable move set. If you are willing to give her extremely powerful moves that put her way above any of the other characters, then yes you can give her different moves. But if you want to keep her balanced, that is a lot harder.
[/spoiler]

[Dragonheart91]

Specifics don't matter. I could put balanced numbers to all of those moves or replace them with new ones that were balanced. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING can be balanced if you are just a little bit creative. And any character can have a unique moveset in Smash Bros if you use that same creativity.

[Doc Scratch]

Once again, how the hell are you going to make someone who lacks the Screw Attack, Bombs, and Grapple Beam a clone of Samus?

Clones happen because of laziness, not because of similarity, and Dark Samus isn't similar to Samus in anything but appearance in the first place. Ganondorf is absolutely NOTHING like Captain Flacon in his games, yet he's a clone. Why is he a clone? Because the game design team was pressed for time in Melee, and didn't want to anger the Ganondorf players in Brawl (Which they still did, since Ganondorf blows in Brawl).

If simply LOOKING like a character made someone a clone, Ike would be a clone of Marth, Zelda would be a clone of Peach, and Jigglypuff would be a clone of Kirby.

[Doc Scratch]

Also, Ridley is totally too big.