Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Discuss the Super Smash Bros. games, and coordinate matches with online Brawlers here!

Moderator: Moderators

BooDestroyer

Hatchling
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 01.03.11 9:23pm

Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby BooDestroyer » 03.07.11 8:54pm

From a recent discussion in the cosplay thread, I decided to bring this here. So are the Smash Bros. games actually helping each of these Nintendo series get more attention, or is too much Smash Bros. driving people away from them with certain amounts of false advertising? The case with some characters and series may be on ice.

It's largely evident that most (not all, thanks) Smash Bros. fans have little to no knowledge of the games that it represents, nor do they even have any interest in finding out.

Metroid: As others have stated, before Brawl was announced, almost nobody even knew about Samus in her Zero Suit. But other than that, Metroid seems to be marching on without Smash putting any more weight on its shoulders. So Brawl didn't damage the rest of it, except the Zero Suit deal, and only that.

Wario: Adding insult to injury, not only did Brawl refuse to acknowledge Wario Land, but the WarioWare representation overall was minimal. I remember how WarioWare used to have such a booming fanbase, but later on, probably when Brawl came around, it seems to have vanished, and people forgot all about the other characters in that series who aren't Wario. How unfortunate...

F-Zero: This one is in the worst case of them all. There are the people who idolize Captain Falcon, yet never even played any F-Zero games for shit.

They know who he is, but they don't know about what series he's from. Nor do they even bother to know. Not to mention, Falcon is nothing like that in the F-Zero games. Not only is the lack of games in aeons killing the F-Zero series, but so is the false advertising like that.

Just look at the sales of each game. What does this tell you now? Don't get your hopes up for another F-Zero at this year's E3, it's pretty much on its death bed now. And I wonder why not many people bought the later ones.

Zelda: In the times of Melee, people thought that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were the only Zelda games there were, thus ignoring any others. Come Brawl, people screwed those off and now get all over Twilight Princess and Wind Waker only, still not the others.

Heck, if you think that Zero Suit Samus and Captain Falcon have it that bad, there's also Sheik. People are recognizing even Sheik as "only from Smash Bros." They don't even like her in Ocarina of Time. And her continued presence in SSB makes them expect her to appear in another Zelda game. Which she never will. Ever.

Overall, I wouldn't say that Zelda is hurt at all, but Melee and Brawl did go off on most parts of it each.

Fire Emblem: Fangirls for Marth, Ike, and Roy everywhere. But did any of them play a Fire Emblem game? No no no.

Misc.: Some people sincerely think that Mr. Game & Watch (and R.O.B. to a degree) is an actual character, which he isn't. SSB is fooling them into thinking that he is, and they're right falling for it.

Granted, the SSB games let us in on what more Nintendo has to offer, but how many people are actually willing to do some research instead of being the tag-along who was introduced to them by Melee or Brawl? Not many, I'd say. Do these people actually want new games for each series? But if there are, then the only reason they like them is for more to add onto another Smash Bros. and nothing but. Did these people just......completely lose their ability to play any other games besides SSB, or what?




If there are any others I missed that got hit, you can add onto it.

Zeroº

User avatar

Ridley
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: 08.13.10 9:01pm
Location: In ruins!

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Zeroº » 03.07.11 10:58pm

You might as well add to your list every franchise represented in the Smash Bros. games except for Mario Bros., and maybe Pokemon.
- Star Fox has always been an underdog (har, har) in the Nintendo lineup.
- Kirby is always there but often overlooked.
- Metroid had been horribly mistreated by the time of Smash 64.
- Earthbound makes the average gamer go "Earth what?"
- F-Zero will always be neglected.
- Fire Emblem was introduced to the U.S. by way of Melee.
- Ice Climbers was only known to people that were alive when the NES ruled the land.
- Same with Kid Icarus.
- Donkey Kong has proven that it has a fairly good following.
- I wouldn't even consider Pikmin to be a strong Nintendo franchise, it was only added because they wanted to have some more characters that weren't somehow related to Mario.
- Wario is, again, an underdog in the Nintendo lineup that goes sorely overlooked in this day and age.
- Legend of Zelda is a powder-keg waiting to blow considering as how there are soooooo many variations of the main character to choose from and singling one out is bound to ruffle some people's feathers.

Now, I was psyched about, purchased, and loved every single Smash Bros. game to be released, but only because it was finally a game that let all my favorite Nintendo characters interact together. I was an 80s kid that rented a lot of games, though, so I knew everybody on the Smash 64 roster. And so did everybody I played with. Again, 80s kid. The only characters that I didn't know about in Melee were Marth and Roy, but that's because no Fire Emblems had been released outside of Japan yet. Same with Brawl and the addition of Lucas.

I don't remember people complaining too much about how certain characters were implemented back in Smash 64. I do know that people complained about the lazy cloning of skillsets for a good portion of the characters in Melee. And I know that there was tons of complaining about which characters were included and excluded and how they were handled in Brawl.

As for your question, I'd say that there are at least three answers:
1. Us older gamers that are delighted when our favorite characters and franchises are included and actively lament the fact that some are unnecessarily excluded or poorly executed. We are the active fans of that which is represented in the Smash games.

2. The younger gamers that have had little-to-no experience with a majority of the characters and franchises represented in the Smash games and often discover an interest in a character or franchise because of playing a Smash game. For instance, a lot of MDbers seem to be fans of Metroid after having learned of it through Smash Bros.

3. Honestly can't remember. A third one came to me, but I lost it while writing the others. Sorry.

Now, Nintendo is partly- well, mostly- to blame for people generally getting a misrepresentation of characters by playing Smash Bros. due to it's willy-nilly treatment of the franchises represented. Some of the franchises participating in Smash Bros. either see very sporadic releases or haven't had a release in a good fortnight. Smash 64 focused on games that had a strong following at the time, Melee was something of a nostalgia drive, and Brawl was an attempted amalgamation of the two. The entire Smash Bros. series kind of banks on the hopes that you already know something about the franchises contained within, because that's basically their main drawing factor. Brawl actually did have a nifty, if not severely stunted, feature in the way of the sample games that let players get a glimpse of where their favorite brawlers came from.

But overall, I can't bring myself to say that the Smash Bros. games are painting any of the Nintendo franchises in a negative light. They're actually doing quite the opposite by teaching the younger generations about games they might have otherwise overlooked. If they happen to get an incorrect view of their favorite Smash Bros. characters due to not looking into them outside of Smash Bros., then you could easily enlighten them in a very friendly manner. You may even help create a legitimate fan.

And I wouldn't call it false advertising so much as a sampler of greater things. Some people want more after the little taste and a fan is born, while some people are just fine with that little taste and only want to play as that princess that turns into a dude.

It helps to keep in mind that (while you might be an adamant fan of some, most, or all of the franchises represented) there are many, many more people in the world that are fresh and new to gaming and have yet to learn about the franchises. Give 'em a little leeway, a chance, and some help. We were all there once, don't forget that.

Ultimately, don't let it get to you. Not everybody is a hardcore gamer that must know everything about everything they play. Some people merely play things to have some fun, and that's as far as they are willing to go.
ImageImage
X-Ray Scope Acquired!

BooDestroyer

Hatchling
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 01.03.11 9:23pm

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby BooDestroyer » 03.08.11 1:12am

(About your statement on Zelda with several variations of Link: Fanatics of the series are indeed up in arms about the "real" Link showing up in there.)



Okay, I know that most of these series are not for everyone. I'm not all for RPGs, so I don't pay attention to EB/MOTHER and Fire Emblem. But the gist of my point was, say if you're not going to intend to play any F-Zero games, then don't bother fangasming over Captain Falcon. (Hell, if you ask me, he and everything related to F-Zero should be removed completely from the next SSB and, you know, let that series die with some dignity.)

Also look at it this way: Nintendo's getting more like "The Miyamoto Company". Anything that isn't made or handled by Shigeru Almighty has a lesser chance of faring well. The more involvement he has on a Nintendo game (in any fashion), the higher a chance of success it may get. And vice versa. (No, this isn't a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with him, but I think the other swell names at Nintendo don't get a whole lot of credit as much as him. This is just the way these things tend to work.)

There's also Nintendo's fear of trying new franchises, which they're actually in the process of conquering right now. Most of the new IPs they've seen so far didn't fare so well either, suppose I can partly see why though. But whatever this may be, it should be something worthwhile. And I hope it paves the road for some more new series to come as well. (I'd go into how Kirby's Epic Yarn didn't start off as a Kirby game, but...)

I donno, I guess you're right. I shouldn't let most of this get to me. But it's just that I've seen more than enough of the "hardcore" types go so rampant with all of it, in which I did. Maybe I am looking at most of these things the wrong way. Gah, I sound like a douche. Drive a 10-foot pole through my skull already.

Mewtwo

User avatar

Omega Metroid
 
Posts: 955
Joined: 08.18.10 3:17am
Location: Down Under

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Mewtwo » 03.08.11 1:35am

So much tl;dr in this thread but hey, heres my two cents:

People havent heard of X underrated nintendo series.
Super Smash Bros comes out.
Some people know the characters, never know what games theyre from
Some people get an interest, get into the games, X underrated game has one more fan.

Now if Smash Bros never came out, people would just never find out about the series anyway.
I dunno if I'm making sense, but in my view, smash bros isn't negative, it can only really make a neutral or a positive impact on a series.

I know I got into Metroid, Kirby, Fire Emblem and Warioware through Super Smash Bros (through various incarnations)
I couldn't ever say its a bad thing. Also its almost educational when I get the game out and play with friends, and they ask why my robot character suddenly turned into a sexy woman, I can educate them on a new series :D

Zeroº

User avatar

Ridley
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: 08.13.10 9:01pm
Location: In ruins!

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Zeroº » 03.08.11 1:42am

What you just wrote is basically the short version of what I wrote. :P :s-logo:
ImageImage
X-Ray Scope Acquired!

Mewtwo

User avatar

Omega Metroid
 
Posts: 955
Joined: 08.18.10 3:17am
Location: Down Under

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Mewtwo » 03.08.11 2:41am

Zeroº wrote:What you just wrote is basically the short version of what I wrote. :P :s-logo:


Yup. I only read that much if I'm being tested on it.

Chris

Metroid Queen
 
Posts: 1547
Joined: 12.16.10 5:07am
Location: Leeds

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Chris » 03.10.11 6:01am

BooDestroyer wrote:But the gist of my point was, say if you're not going to intend to play any F-Zero games, then don't bother fangasming over Captain Falcon. (Hell, if you ask me, he and everything related to F-Zero should be removed completely from the next SSB and, you know, let that series die with some dignity.)


So people aren't allowed to enjoy using a character in this game unless they play the actual games they are taken from and Nintendo shouldn't use characters unless the franchise they are from sells well?

HUH?

BooDestroyer wrote:F-Zero: This one is in the worst case of them all. There are the people who idolize Captain Falcon, yet never even played any F-Zero games for shit.

They know who he is, but they don't know about what series he's from. Nor do they even bother to know. Not to mention, Falcon is nothing like that in the F-Zero games. Not only is the lack of games in aeons killing the F-Zero series, but so is the false advertising like that.

Just look at the sales of each game. What does this tell you now? Don't get your hopes up for another F-Zero at this year's E3, it's pretty much on its death bed now. And I wonder why not many people bought the later ones.



The disappointing F-Zero sales probably have nothing what so ever to do with Falcon's appearance in Smash Bros if that was what you are implying. One is a fighting game and the other is a racing game, apples and oranges, one received some good advertising and features many iconic characters fighting each other, the other was released with little to no publicity and contains forgettable characters that simply race each other. Which one do you expect to have mass appeal?

ph00tbag

Omega Metroid
 
Posts: 711
Joined: 09.23.09 4:30pm

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby ph00tbag » 03.11.11 11:33am

BooDestroyer wrote:(Hell, if you ask me, he and everything related to F-Zero should be removed completely from the next SSB and, you know, let that series die with some dignity.)

But then how can we show him our moves?

TheBlackCat

User avatar

Omega Metroid
 
Posts: 909
Joined: 10.28.10 8:43pm
Location: Searching for the candle in the dark

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby TheBlackCat » 03.11.11 2:49pm

I sincerely doubt we would have gotten Kid Icarus on the 3DS if it wasn't for Melee and then Brawl. I think it is very likely that the excitement and speculation around the Pit trophy in Melee was what led to him being in Brawl, and the excitement from that was what led to him being on the 3DS. The fact that they are even using the same character models from Brawl in 3DS I think supports this conclusion.

Other than that, though, I doubt there has been much impact.

As for F-Zero, I would not be at all surprised if it were to appear on the 3DS. The series seems well-suited to showcase the system's capabilities.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
-NASA in 1965

Zeroº

User avatar

Ridley
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: 08.13.10 9:01pm
Location: In ruins!

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Zeroº » 03.11.11 4:09pm

TheBlackCat wrote:As for F-Zero, I would not be at all surprised if it were to appear on the 3DS. The series seems well-suited to showcase the system's capabilities.
Man, if they made a F-Zero game for the 3DS, those visuals would probably make my brain bleed... Definitely want.
ImageImage
X-Ray Scope Acquired!

Naner

User avatar

Dark Samus
 
Posts: 6612
Joined: 05.23.07 3:29pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby Naner » 03.14.11 6:28pm

I dunno.

I entered head-on in gaming in 2001, which was when I got a GameBoy. Due to my age, the only things I knew existed for it were Mario Bros. and Pokémon. Until a friend of mine with a Nintendo 64 showed me Super Smash Bros.. So many interesting characters other than Mario and Pikachu! Then, I had to return to Brazil and kinda forgot about the game. Years later, I was at a friend's - who also had an N64 - house playing Super Mario 64 when we decided to rent a game. At the shop, looking at the 64 games, I find a nostalgic cover. Super SMASH Bros., it said. Flashbacks came to me and I told my friend: This game is awesome! We rented it and played for a whole afternoon.

I started playing Smash Bros. very frequently and started getting curious about the characters. Fox, the space pilot. Link, the magical swordsman. Kirby, the pink ball who copies abilities. Samus, - who I already knew was a woman thanks to my magazine literature - the galactic warrior. Captain Falcon, the guy who punched. Who were they?

Then the emulators came in. I then used my growing computer skills to play Zero Mission, Kirby 64, Star Fox 64 and other great games featuring the people from Smash.

After that, I just couldn't stop playing with those extremely lovable characters.


I know I'm not the only one with a story like this - many, many people were introduced by Nintendo's lesser-known series by Smash Bros. Remember the two or three years that followed each Smash game? Kirby 64, Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime, Other M, Kid Icarus Uprising. The simple existence of those games owe a lot to their protagonist's appearance on the ultimate all-stars (which isn't Tat vs. Cap).
Tianna wrote:Naner, you rock.
Image
My Facebook
Shinesparkers

AngusRidley

Metroid
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 03.10.11 4:34pm
Location: Hangin' wit mah bro, Kraidy

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby AngusRidley » 03.14.11 6:38pm

well, hmm. Good question. I dont like racing games much, with the possible exception of mario kart. HOWEVER!
BRAWL IS LIKELY THE FIRST INFLUENCE I HAD TO METROID.
i loved samus in melee, even tho she did stink. THEN CAME BRAWL! i learned she was a gurl. Read the intro thread for mah story, but back on topic, im not touching F-Zero if you cant even falcon punch. I think it helps the series' popularity, although im still one of those "Earthwhat" people :)
Give a hoot. Save Ridley. Join the RCPA(Ridley cruelty protection agency) :P

monkeyhunter1

Hatchling
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 03.20.11 7:19pm

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby monkeyhunter1 » 03.21.11 10:05pm

Imo helping, without it I wouldn't have picked up f-zero, fire emblem, star fox assault (which basically sucks, rented adventures too which I really enjoyed), metroid and probably a few others.
All that because wanted to "actually fight" with pikachu when I was about 11 so I got smash bros.
The characters that didn't appeal so much where just ignored so there's no harm.
Okay so roy and marth weren't in FE:PoR but it did introduce me to a pretty unique game which I really enjoyed and still do. Greil mercs ftw!
“Sweat saves blood, blood saves lives, and brains saves both.”

metroidhunter183

User avatar

Alpha Metroid
 
Posts: 188
Joined: 12.09.10 5:26pm
Location: Tallon IV

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby metroidhunter183 » 03.23.11 8:20pm

AngusRidley wrote:BRAWL IS LIKELY THE FIRST INFLUENCE I HAD TO METROID.


Same here! My friend has a 64 so we played brawl, and i choose samus. Her attacks were easy for me. I got intrested in the game she was in (metroid), so I did some research on metroid and found MDB!

Its kinda sad that people only know samus through ssbb
Currently playing: Metroid Prime Trilogy

BooDestroyer

Hatchling
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 01.03.11 9:23pm

Re: Super Smash Bros.: Helping or hurting each series?

Postby BooDestroyer » 03.27.11 1:18pm

AngusRidley wrote:im not touching F-Zero if you cant even falcon punch. I think it helps the series' popularity

You just proved my point.

If it won't happen in an F-Zero title, then how does it help the popularity of it at all? That means this series is killed by it. (Better yet, what popularity? This series hasn't seen another game since 2004.)

Nobody gets interested in F-Zero through Smash Bros. NOBODY.

Next

Return to Super Smash Bros.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Luminoth Prime and 1 guest