Samus Aran - as nonsexualized as we think?

[YamI]

I would too if I had a bedroom. Thats such a beautiful scene.

[ANGRY2011]

Aw man. That picture is full of so much win, it is one of my favorites, as is all his other work. Because he's insane. It'd be sweet to have that hanging around if I had some space.

Out of nothing but sheer curiosity, how big is it?

[Trishbot]

Aw man. That picture is full of so much win, it is one of my favorites, as is all his other work. Because he's insane. It'd be sweet to have that hanging around if I had some space.

Out of nothing but sheer curiosity, how big is it?

It's 11x17. I got a few Samus pics from him that are the same size.

[MaiAriSquee]

It's a great piece of work, but she looks too young and soft for my liking. Granted, the timeline of the image could be when she IS young, so... In my head Samus became a sort of ideal role-model, someone you'd want to grow into- that's probably why I've always pictured her older.

[superhuman7]

OK, so I am sure this has been posted at one point or another but, I'm gonna post it here.

Ever since the very first Metroid, and with the exception of Prime 1 (where she only takes off her helmet), all of the main Metroid games have had different endings, and the better you do, the better endings you get. In each of these games, Samus will eventually (depending on the game and ending) remove her power armour and reveal a stunning, tight outfit along with with femine figure, and as most people agree, it is meant to be very attractive.

The thing about this is, that origionally, in Metroids 1-4, and Primes 1+2, this only occured at the very end of the game. It was made to be more of a 'treat' to gamers for their work (mainly males of course) but otherwise was unmentioned or hinted at and focussed entirely on the action and exploreration designed into Metroid's famous gameplay. I'm sure some people complained about the sexisum of this even back then, but for the most part it was just considered good fun.

However, in more recent games, such as Zero Mission, Smash Brothers Brawl, and the game still being debated over, mostly for this subject Other M, Samus doesn't just appear in her Zero Suit (or equivilent bathing suit), but actively runs around in it. This has created alot of hype and debate over her, especially recently, as alot of people think it is demeaning her as a character, while others either enjoy this fact, or simply don't care at all.

So, without looking at the dialogue in Fusion or Other M (as that brings up its own debate, Other M especially), Samus has changed from a metallic, essentially asexual warrior and assassin, and has slowly become a very fierce, yet model-like martial artist. This seems to be causing the overall opinion of Samus to be split into two groups, and I wanna know who is on what side.

So in short, this thread is to talk about:

Samus as a symbol in her armour
Samus as a symbol in her zero suit or equivilent
Samus as portrayed in the media

Also, even though there are no doubt relavent points for both sides in this area, please do not talk about the dialogue of Fusion, or more importantly, Other M. While you may talk about Samus' appearence in these games fully, her dialogue will no doubt just reopen the Other M debate, which is its own issue (so no baby and daddy references please!)

Otherwise, everyone be nice, and try to enjoy the discussion. ^^

[Infinity's End]

Merged topics. @superhuman7: This thread was only on page 2, please look harder next time.

[Zynux]

TL;DR INCOMING.


Before we begin, I just want to make one thing perfectly clear: There is absolutely nothing wrong with Samus being "sexy". None at all. In fact, being sexy is good, it is something both men and women want. There is nothing wrong with having a nice body, pleasing curves, nice bosom, or whatever (dammit, sorry for sounding like a pervert but hang with me for a sec). I would even go as far as to say Samus flaunting it would not be a problem, but to me that goes against her character (since she's obviously more interested in hunting bounties, Space Pirates, etc.). But since that's a preconceived notion of her character (and that we have virtually no clue on her sex-life), I won't delve anymore on that issue.

However, that isn't all. She's also has defied all odds, saved the galaxy on many occassions, blew up multiple fucking planets, and while quiet has always been shown to have a good heart despite her tragic past. She isn't always trapped in the strings of the Federation; multiple times she has been shown to disregard her and just follow her heart on what's the right thing to do. And on top of that? She just so happens to be a beautiful woman.

A problem can arise, however. Her being sexy actually is not the problem; again there is nothing wrong with being sexy. Her having pleasing "assets" also isn't the problem. The problem can arise when in the main canon they start to focus more on her beauty for sexual reasons than her achievements. Her looks, no matter how great, should never overshadow her achievements, her ideals, and who she is as a person. When that starts to happen, then we start walking into dangerous territory. Has this happened yet? No, it has not. While I do believe Other M went a bit too far (With focusing less on her beauty and more on the general fact that she was a woman. The game was not subtle on this at all. Maybe it was because of the whole motherhood theme? But we don't need another Other M discussion so I'll leave it at that) other than that it still didn't cross that dangerous territory, but it is slowly weening there little by little.

When I played Zero Mission, I loved the Zero Suit section. For me it added a lot of tension and suspense, and gave me an alternative play-style in the game, which I feel is always a plus. Then, it made it even more satisfying when you acquired your over-powered Gravity Suit, blowing the Space Pirates to bits. Honestly? The Zero-suit section in Zero Mission was fanservice done right.

Now, for more of my personal opinions on Samus sexuality. No, she's still for the most part the Space Warrior we all know and love. Yes, she is attractive (which is not a negative thing), and they made that clear from the very first Metroid (though Other M nailed her face the best imo). No, the Zero-Suit is not "sexist", nor is it really all that controversial, especially in Sci-fi (where skin-tight suits are the norm and functional). There is nothing wrong with a good-looking woman kicking ass. However, when you start crossing that path, where the developers exploit her looks instead of her achievements, then we cross into objectification of the character. Objectification is not sexist, but is still a problem. Do I believe Samus has been objectified? Well, for starters, she has always been "objectified" by the various endings which are pretty tame imo. Then the Zero-Suit came along, and while fans blew up when it comes to fanart, Canonically its still relatively tame. Though I do question brawl's inclusion of Zero-Suit Samus as nothing more than petty fanservice but whatever I didn't like Brawl anyway.

The Zero-suit does sexualize Samus a bit. It is impossible for anything skin-tight to not exaggerate their anyone's proportions, especially female (again, being sexy isn't inherently negative). However, the Zero-Suit has a lot of untouched potential as well. It can clearly show Samus in multiple lights that the Chozo Varia suit cannot. For one thing (which I find the most important), it has an opportunity to really show that she doesn't always need her over-powered suit to kickass and that she's a force to reckon with inside and outside the armor. I can't wait for the day when instead of running away from enemies in her suit, she's like "fuck it" and starts wrecking Space Pirates without her armor. While this would probably worsen the Space Pirates as villains even more, it would greatly enhance Samus, and that she's badass no matter how "handicapped" she is.

The Zero-suit can also easily show off her athleticism, her graceful body movements and her fighting expertise. After all, she was trained by the Chozo and the Military, she is bound to know more than shooting the Ice Beam. The escape scene in Other M kind of showed this well, with her Jumping animation being really cool and graceful, but again she was just running away; I want to see how she fights outside of the suit.

It can also help show how resourceful Samus is. Of course, without the protection of her armor, she needs to be more cautious: this can tie in well for her overall character well and for the gameplay as a whole. But again, Nintendo haven't done any of these to try to justify the Zero-suit.

I don't believe Samus is a "sex symbol" (nor more controversially I don't believe she was ever a champion for feminism and woman rights either. of course, many women made her out to be that way but I feel that was always misplaced), I think she's just a strong woman with her noble ideals to protect the galaxy who just so happens to look good outside of the suit, and that's really about it. If they keep it like that, I'll be very happy. However, if they start shoving down my throat the fact that: She's a woman, she's beautiful, and she's curvy, then there will be a problem. Its not there yet, but it may head there soon.

When it comes to the sexualization of her body, I felt that the concept art of Zero Mission had the best balance from both mediums. Yes, she clearly had a good body, but she was also had a good amount of muscles too; not overbearing where it would become unattractive, but enough where it was really believable that she was indeed a bounty hunter that needed to be in tip-top shape. My only real problem with Other M was that she had too little muscle (and those fucking high-heels were nonsensical. But I hated Other M's zero-suit design anyway). And her breasts were way too big when she was younger (during the GF Military).

Oh, and what I feel about the sexualization of her End-game completion photos. Personally, their not really much of a problem, though I personally feel that their terrible rewards anyway. However, If they start putting Samus in that outfit she wore at the end of Other M (green jacket) then I'll love them forever. Seriously, that was far more sexy than anything else she was in. They need to make that canon.

Well, that's my rambling on the whole matter really. Probably some things I forgot but whatever.



EDIT: Changed "Deferation" to "Federation". Its confirmed; I'm Dyslexic

[Spaceman]

Samus has been sexualized ever since that ridiculously curvy and revealing (and not very muscular) depiction in Metroid II. People should take a good look at it again before bashing the Fusion/Zero Mission ending images and claiming that pixelated Samus was always butch.

The real concern is exploitation. None of the ending images are exploitative because they were never used to sell any of the 2-D games or the Prime trilogy. The zero-suit gameplay in ZM isn't exploitative because that was meant unexpected post-game twist; however, I do think that ass shot (right before the zero-suit gameplay begins) was kinda unnecessary and deserving of criticism.

The zero-suit in Other M isn't exploitative by itself, but the close-ups and lingering pans during cutscenes definitely is. Samus' beauty can and should be depicted without resorting to the Male Gaze.

[samusfan]

I think they only want to show her personality when she is not fighting(she uses clothes like a normal woman,not a simple robot that uses only armor),and that is not bad,they haven't put an ending with her completely naked or half yet.

And when a man want to see a Samus "sexy",all can be used to that,with the mind power(even her suit in other M that is a little more anatomical),so she wearing zero suit or bikini dint say much.

The fact that really matter is,we need to love Samus as warrior or her human personality,and not her sexy attributes, only to sex her,that isn't a metroid fan,and a woman fan

So if she is in her bikini or zero suit or more hot than that,dont worry,we need to continue love her as she is and love the game that is really great.


Sorry for some english mistakes that i am sure i had ,and sorry if i say something too pervert lol

[ChaosWolf]

This post was in reply to Superhuman's original thread. I didn't get to post it before it was merged. Well, here goes the original post:


And no surprise, its TL;DR.
(SNIP)
Well, that's my rambling on the whole matter really. Probably some things I forgot but whatever. Later peeps, off to school soon.

Dude, I started to post here, saw your post, then I stopped - I could not have put it better myself.

[Tianna]

Zynux said a lot of awesome on the subject.

As a woman, and a woman who grew up with the series, I have never been offended by the fact that Samus was a beautiful woman. I never felt like she was being sexualized even in the endings where she's in little more than her underwear. Even if she's not a statement for women's rights (which I hadn't even considered), having a strong woman character as the hero of the story was really awesome back in the 80's and early 90's. It was practically unheard of. Samus broke that barrier. She's strong and awesomely badass, but she still is feminine.

I always felt that the better endings with her wearing less of the armor was more of a statement of seeing the person underneath rather than being "treated" to seeing her almost naked as a sexual symbol or a fanservice. And really, her degree of lack of clothing always made sense to me. (Edit: I want to add that I say this as someone who is/was heavily body shy.) I wouldn't want to wear anything loose or heavy if I was wearing armor over it. It would get caught on things and be really uncomfortable. I think that Nintendo going in the direction of the Zero Suit over the bikini was to cover her up more, I would guess because of the change of times and some parents are really ridiculously paranoid about their kids seeing someone "too naked". At least, that's what makes sense to me. Or maybe it was to add a degree of realism to put her in a full-body tight suit so that there wasn't too much bare-skin-on-metal which would also be obnoxiously annoying if I was in her position.

What I think has actually sexualized her has been fans. Like I said, I've never been offended or insulted by what Samus wears, or felt that it was overly sexualized in the games. But the internet is gross sometimes. I see fanart that only serves to sexualize her and make her into some kind of fapping-material and that is what I find offensive. I've conversely seen fully nude art that wasn't sexualized at all.

Growing up, I spent like all of my time with by two brothers, which were my two siblings directly older and younger than me, and the only ones of my siblings who were into video games like me. We've all played the Metroid games and seen the good endings without her armor. And never have I heard either of them talk about how she was sexy or get all awkward about it. What they did talk about was how cool she was.