Metroid other M story plot discussion

[Electro]

I'm quite sure the Space Pirates thing did end on Super Metroid.
Blow up their base on the first Metroid, and Whoops, there were some left so -BOOM- blow up the whole planet this time on Super and now we're free from worring about those space-lobsters THE END.

While the Prime series was great in every way, I must say that the story has parts that don't fit with the "main" plot.
(Maybe that was one more reason that made the game good)
So the Pirates that appeared in Prime, must have ended inside the Prime trilogy. I hardly believe it wil give any kind of influence outside the Prime series.

Unless there will be another Metroid Prime game that will be crunched into the timeline after MP3.

[DrevanZero]

Actually, you are dead wrong. The prime series is full canon metroid, afaik, sakamoto just decided to not mention anything from them in other m. Just like he never mentioned the chozo. So it is easily possible that prime-style pirates could still exist within the normal timeline. Also, there cpuld have been new purate bases set up on other planets. When I was reading a log from mp1, I realized that it mentioned 2 other research frigates that escaped from zebes along woth the orpheon. Their mames werr the siriacus and the vol paragom. These were never mentioned again during the prime series, or any other games. Therefore, th pirates could have up new bases on farther away planets, and decided to wait and.build theor strength until they cpuld be a large force within the galaxy once more. These research frigates also cpuld have gad metroids, allowing for the existance of post-fusion troids. Also, this casts Ridleys stealing of tge last metroid in the beginning of.super. instead of taking the final metroid, he may have been ordered to keep the umetroid out of the gf's hands. And/or, the zebesians didn't knoe about the survoving prime pirates, and therefpr sought nd.as their nex

[ultraviolet]

I'm not so sure that the Space Pirate thing is as over as it seems - I always had the impression that there was more than one Space Pirate homeworld, it was mentioned (although I can't remember whether it was in the Corruption manual or in a log entry). I remember the phrase "one of the Pirate homeworlds" was hit by a Leviathan. Besides, they had enormous fleets of ships, some of them could have been quite a way off during Prime 3.

Anyway, bit off topic there sorry

I personally enjoyed Other M, I had always had an image of what I believed Samus would be like - and I was shown everything down the smallest detail. Because her parents were murdered at such an early age, she would obviously be scarred and not be used to human contact so when she shows she has a vulnerable personality, that's perfectly human. It just made sense to me that someone with that much power would, ipso-facto, be the most vulnerable and mature. For most of the games, even if she never said a word - there were times where all of us must have thought "why doesn't she just flay away?" That shows to me that no matter how scared or how against her the odds are, she would NEVER give up.

The end of Super showed us this, that she was badly hurt and even though you couldn't make her stand up, she would try. And when she was sure she was beaten, she accepted this may be the end "Why am I still alive?" She thought she was going to die. That phrase alone from the opening shook me. But I was very impressed at her resolve. I think they gave her a personality on this one, because there is a lot of killing in these games and if she did not feel anything, she wouldn't be human. And she is, after all's said and done, a woman. Albeit not an overly feminine or tomboyish one - she appears to be more practical (not one nore the other) but that doesn't mean she has no soul. It makes sense to me that she would show fear and sorrow. I never shed a tear for Adam, I thought him overly cold toward her but she thought of him as a father. I shed a tear because she did.

The Ridley thing has been done to (beyond) death, but if you were certain you'd killed it after everything that happened in Super and it rises from the flames - we would be shocked too, and Ridley was responsible for the death of so many - including her parents. Although she froze, it seemed like a reasonable reaction. In the other games, it's up to us to be afraid, or angry, or stay numb and just kill eveything. And we basically just killed, we played her part - and we thought nothing of it. We mostly thought "why is he back" - she is genuinely afraid and shows it, but despite that, she got her act together and attacked. When she lost contact with Adam and spoke of it in the elevator, it was like she was upset but not quite sure how to deal with it. Example: when my girlfriend's mother passed away a while back, she went through something similar. She acknowledged it happened but she had no idea what to think or feel so she just got on with it. Samus is complex and if you think deeply enough, you can follow her train of thought through it.

The voice acting I thought was perfect, she spoke clearly and you could detect the deliberate hints and tones that sound just slightly off. Well, she spends a lot of time alone through these games and you could argure that because of the lack of human interaction, that being put into this extreme situation makes interaction required, but difficult. She sounded almost mechanical and logical - but as I said, she's more practical - because of her life, everything becomes about tactical advantage, and speaking has no tactical advantage during a fight. And she fights, a lot.

TL:DR I could go on forever, but if I can convince even one person that a lot of thought was put into writing her, and that she's not a hollow wreck of a character, maybe that's one person who can appreciate it more. I was rather shocked at the negativity I found about such an epic game. And after all, it is a great game. For all the things that popped up as a "red flag" in my mind could easily be understood when I thought back.

One last point: when she left for Sector 0 - she left the girl, was that cold knowing the Deleter was close by? Did she decide that the destruction of Sector 0 was more important? Or did she simply forget? There is more than one way to view each situation and who knows how we would react in the same situation

Yeah, I'll stop now Edit: Sorry, I went into one

[DarkPhazonElite]

I couldn't have said it better myself, UV! I think the game could use some polish and the Deleter scene could have been done better, but overall I loved the game as well. I honestly don't mind how Samus was portrayed. I think of it this way: she's got all of this power and she is still down to earth and humble. Do people want Vegeta with a vagina or something? Admittedly he's my favorite DBZ character... I'm glad she's not a cocky feminazi bitch. I'm a woman myself and I saw nothing sexist about that game. (I'm typing this just after I folded laundry and cleaned my kitchen while my husband works... ) Adam expected the other GFeds to follow his orders too.

One last point: when she left for Sector 0 - she left the girl, was that cold knowing the Deleter was close by? Did she decide that the destruction of Sector 0 was more important? Or did she simply forget? There is more than one way to view each situation and who knows how we would react in the same situation

I remember Samus saying that she would go deal with Sector Zero and told "Madeline" to remain hidden. I guess she assumed that she did hide, not knowing who she really was.

[ultraviolet]

I remember Samus saying that she would go deal with Sector Zero and told "Madeline" to remain hidden. I guess she assumed that she did hide, not knowing who she really was.

You're right, sorry - I completely forgot. I wonder who started up the computers too, "Madeline" or the Deleter...

There was something else I forgot to write in my "essay" up there The scene where Adam shoots Samus with the Freeze Gun - I had read somewhere that some people thought that was pointless or a major plot-hole or something and were tearing the game apart because of that and I just can't help but wonder if it wasn't obvious enough. Adam knows Samus very well, so he would know what she was planning to do (he was also watching everything she did too through her visor) and he also knew that she didn't stand a chance against the [spoiler]Genetically Modified Metroids[/spoiler] so he had to stop her - he explained his reasons, but if those players knew Samus well enough, they would have thought that yes, it was a bit harsh, but it was also the only way of saving her life - she would have overpowered him using the Power Suit and she would have gone up with Sector 0. Shooting her in the back was a means of slowing her down.

We saw in Fusion that she is not afraid to die when the threat is large enough, but that she is also rather quick to decide that too - so you could argue that although Adam's methods were not very pleasant, he also saved her life more than once in an unexpected way.

I'm not saying that anyone is dense or anyting but just in case any of those players see this, they may understand and not be so quick to insult a game they claim to love. I spoke about Other M to a friend a short while back and they said it was crap because they heard someone on IGN say that and I said "Have you ever played it?" and they said "No." That and the sexism thing, so I asked "What's sexist about being sensitive? What's sexist about being afraid? Hell, what was sexist about any of it?" No answer, they bought it themselves and told me later how much they adored it. A final note, my gamer friend is also a woman - but it just goes to show how the media can make up someone's mind before the game is even released.

I don't like how many times I've come across that, that's all.

Also, RinoaFantasy, you're right - and I couldn't help but laugh my ass off at that too

[DarkPhazonElite]

Another good point, UV! Although I think as far as Adam shooting Samus in the back scene, I think a lot of people were confused as to how all of a sudden he has a suit-nullifying gun. I admit that left me scratching my head. Even after taking a blast from [spoiler]Mother Brain's nasty rainbow attack[/spoiler] in Super Metroid she still had her suit on.

I can respect differing opinions, but there is a small line between making fun of something and just talking trash. In my opinion, making fun of something is sometimes good natured and often funny. Even if someone hated Other M, if they can make a funny joke about it I can appreciate the humor even though I disagree with their opinion. I loved the game and I may make fun of it sometimes and I can appreciate good humor. It's when people start going "this game suuuuucccks" and "what a piece of crap" and "what a whiny little bitch Samus is" and "anyone who likes the game is an idiot and is not a true Metroid fan" without any reasons backing their statements up that I roll my eyes and dismiss their opinions as nothing more than smack talk. There is a joke thread in this board about Other M where some of the stuff just had me rolling with laughter.

For example, while I didn't find Samus annoying, I thought this video was hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCAPk4cFRa4

[rondus18]

K, 'bout time I put an end to this straw man and other common defenses that need to stop. No one I have ever heard criticize Other M's portrayal of Samus has said they wanted Samus to be 'Vegeta with a vagina'. I have, however, heard defenders suggest that if you didn't like the dull, emotionless robot that was impersonating Samus in Other M flawed Samus we got in Other M then you must have wanted some flawless killing machine character. There are other types of personalities than just flawless or emotionless. Also, stop saying Samus is human or a woman. There is no evidence for this in Other M. She is more likely a robot with malfunctioning human emulation software.

On the subject of her flaws. Flaws do not make her a more interesting character. Just because a character without flaws is uninteresting does not mean a character with flaws is interesting. The million dollar question is what do her flaws mean. And the answer is nothing, nothing whatsoever. Her character flaws are completely inconsequential. Samus learns nothing throughout the course of this game. Samus does not grow as a character in this game. She starts at A, goes on this huge adventure where revelations are relived, deceptions are made, and almost everyone around her dies, and then she ends at A. Right where she started. Because she's not a human being. The most we get is Samus giving a thumbs up at the end instead of a thumbs down. This is the closest to a character arc Samus gets. Which is only slightly a colossal problem for a protagonist to have in a story where the point is to characterize Samus.

I think Sakamoto himself has even said in defense of the Ridley thing that it was essentially a character flaw and that it was a way to show she wasn't perfect. Okay, here's the thing. Samus is highly proficient when it comes to killing Ridley. If Samus were filling out her resume, she'd add under special skills, killing Ridley. If you had a Ridley infestation problem you would call Samus. If Samus were a fucking My Little Pony, her cutie mark would be her killing Ridley. This is not a flaw, it's a talent. Why has it suddenly turned into a flaw? Maybe if a character flaw is needed you could have her be too good at killing Ridley, to the point that she's reckless about it and in her endeavor to get revenge good people like Anthony get hurt. That could be interesting and it wouldn't feel like it's contradicting any preconceived notions about Samus' character.

Now, on the subject of 'explaining the reason why something stupid happened does not make it any less stupid'. Just like having flaws, having a reason for something only makes it work if it's a good reason. Yes, Adam had a reason for shooting Samus. No, it was not a good reason. Samus was standing right next to a Metroid when Adam incapacitated her. This is kind of a big tactical oversight for someone who supposedly has the 'perfect military mind'. Let us compose a list things Adam didn't know/overlooked when he knocked her out.

1. If he'd be able to hit the tiny fast moving Metroid with his ice beam before it could stab Samus in the face with its pincers and start to suck the life out of her.
2. How dangerous the effects of aforementioned life sucking on Samus would be when she is without the protection of her suit.
3. If there were anymore Metroids in the room ready to attack.
4. If the Zebesians we see just outside of Sector 0 when Samus is escaping are going to show up and attack.

Now, even if these things didn't make Adam look completely incompetent, there is still a problem. It's lame. Explanation or no, we don't want to see Samus shot in the back and knocked out in one hit just so some guy we don't care about can protect her from something we've never seen in some place we've never been.

[DarkPhazonElite]

Phew! One should not read that reply without a Varia suit! People are gonna keep defending or trashing it no matter what anyone says. I thought a lot about the game and formed my opinion which is not going to change no matter how many times people try to explain it, just as I really don't expect those of you who didn't like the game to start liking it. (Sorry if that's what it looked like I was doing.) Even I think that the game was lacking in certain areas. I'm saying I loved the game and that I didn't hate the storyline. Not "OMG THIS IS THE BEST EFFING GAME LIKE EVERRRRR AND YOU ALL ARE BIG STUPID HEADS IF YOU DON'T TOTALLY LIKE, LOVE IT!! ZOMG!!" I apologize if I (or UV) offended you with our views on the story. That's all they are, views and opinions. (We are authorized to have those, right?)

This is kind of a big tactical oversight for someone who supposedly has the 'perfect military mind'. Let us compose a list things Adam didn't know/overlooked when he knocked her out.

1. If he'd be able to hit the tiny fast moving Metroid with his ice beam before it could stab Samus in the face with its pincers and start to suck the life out of her.
2. How dangerous the effects of aforementioned life sucking on Samus would be when she is without the protection of her suit.
3. If there were anymore Metroids in the room ready to attack.
4. If the Zebesians we see just outside of Sector 0 when Samus is escaping are going to show up and attack.

You do have a very valid point there, and as I mentioned before, that part left me scratching my head.

[rondus18]

This has nothing to do with opinions. My problem is with the arguments like the idea that assigning a reason to something or coming up with an excuse for something inherently makes that something better or the idea that there aren't other alternatives for Samus' characterization other than what we got and a feminazi. I don't know if there is a term for the first type of argument, but that and the false dichotomy are fallacies I've seen all over the place, Other M discussions or not, and I'm putting an end to it. I imagine by the year 2017 I'll have eliminated 50% of all logical fallacies on the internet.

You can like games I think are bad. I like some games that I think are bad, but I don't let that stop me. Your opinion is fine, those arguments aren't. Now you know.

[DarkPhazonElite]

This has nothing to do with opinions. My problem is with the arguments like the idea that assigning a reason to something or coming up with an excuse for something inherently makes that something better or the idea that there aren't other alternatives for Samus' characterization other than what we got and a feminazi. I don't know if there is a term for the first type of argument, but that and the false dichotomy are fallacies I've seen all over the place, Other M discussions or not, and I'm putting an end to it. I imagine by the year 2017 I'll have eliminated 50% of all logical fallacies on the internet.

You can like games I think are bad. I like some games that I think are bad, but I don't let that stop me. Your opinion is fine, those arguments aren't. Now you know.

I agree they could have done something different with her character but I didn't hate what we got. Maybe it's cause I've been a Metroid fan for a whopping year or maybe I'm just that forgiving that I didn't have high expectations for Samus's character (or lack thereof). It seems that we just won't see eye to eye on this so I have to say I'm done with this discussion. I'm gonna go play something that I actually DO think is better than Other M. Prime 3 Corruption. Ciao!

[Emperor Ing]

rondus you forgot to mention the part where Adam's perfect military mind gets his whole squad wiped out in one mission.

[ultraviolet]

Wow, that was a totally unexpected reaction - I take it you're not a big fan of this one?

I can respect your views rondus, I may not agree that much but I just thought it was worth defending - there were a few bugs and flaws here and there, but trying to quell the hate seems to have added fuel to the fire. I'm not saying it's perfect, just trying to focus more on the good points that some seem to have overlooked - and explain some of the things that I've heard people talking trash about or maybe help someone find a new way to see what happened. There'll never be a game without flaws, that'd be impossible, but I think sometimes that because things are explained to us a lot now, we can find ourselves not paying enough attention when things aren't explained, and so we naturally think "wtf?" when there is an explanation (or at least I think so). The bad points are valid too.

And I'm sorry, I certainly didn't intend to grind your gears - or anyone else's.

Good (and funny) point someone else made though - "perfect military mind"...

And because this is dangerously close to a flamewar now, I think it's for the best if it were to stop too. I'm done here, see you next mission

[rondus18]

rar, you'd better run. I'm obviously pissed off, be afraid. Flamewar is imminent. Wall of text = mad.

rondus you forgot to mention the part where Adam's perfect military mind gets his whole squad wiped out in one mission.

Not quite perfect, he didn't manage to get Anthony. That's why they put his mind in a computer, so he can finish the job.

[ultraviolet]

I admit I did write like a skyscraper's worth

I felt like I opened a door to Norfair there

It's cool though, like I said, there are so many different views.

I guess I'll saunter back to the Wii now - Official Component Cable Arrived today - time to see Other M in 480p

...straw man?...

[AuroraUnitComplex]

Also, stop saying Samus is human or a woman. There is no evidence for this in Other M.

Oh, really? Don't crush my dreams Rondus.

No one I have ever heard criticize Other M's portrayal of Samus has said they wanted Samus to be 'Vegeta with a vagina'.

I haven’t specifically heard that either, but I have heard people around the internet claim, on the other extreme, that people shouldn’t like the game since Samus was nothing more than a weak submissive pussy, and statements of that nature. I agree with you about being tired of popular straw arguments, but I’m more bothered by people who extremely exaggerate the content in the game. Furthermore, I don’t see much point in complaining about straw arguments if you’re also going to make silly exaggerated claims that Samus didn’t show any genuine signs of humanity in the game.

Because she's not a human being.

I can complain about a number of things about the characters' presentation, and I'm sure we agree on several of them, but I think your final conclusion is way too harsh.

I think Sakamoto himself has even said in defense of the Ridley thing that it was essentially a character flaw and that it was a way to show she wasn't perfect.

Where did he say that? I think you might be confusing it with something that Bihldorff said. As far as Ridley is concerned, I don’t see why Samus can’t simultaneously be great at beating up Ridley (which she did in Other M), and also have to break a sweat and struggle when fighting him. He is supposed to be her nemesis afterall. Now we could have this be a one-sided conflict where Samus is completely bored about fighting this pest, since he’s so easy to destroy with her hand tied behind her back, but I personally think it’s more interesting when Samus has to go up against something that’s more threatening and challenging, and she does have to overcome some momentary flaws/challenges. Other M might not have properly demonstrated this, but I would prefer they try to make Ridley a more meaningful enemy, than continuing with just the same ol’ ‘here he is again, oh now he’s dead again, missiles to the face, poof’ just for the sake of people’s preconceived notions.

Anyway, one of the examples that Sakamoto did highlight, in order to illustrate Samus’s character flaws, was the conflict between her responsibility as a professional bounty hunter, and her decision to spare the Baby metroid. This was another huge part of Samus’s character portrayal in Other M, and I’m surprised that so many people never talk about the larger picture of how this conflict was shown throughout the narrative.

The million dollar question is what do her flaws mean. And the answer is nothing, nothing whatsoever. Her character flaws are completely inconsequential. Samus learns nothing throughout the course of this game. Samus does not grow as a character in this game. She starts at A, goes on this huge adventure where revelations are relived, deceptions are made, and almost everyone around her dies, and then she ends at A. Right where she started. Because she's not a human being.

I disagree on multiple levels, but let me use the Baby metroid as an example. The whole thing about the story of the hatchling, is that Other M shows the entire progression of how Samus went from initially deciding to exterminate all of the metroids on SR388, to having a change of heart, and then coming back full circle to realize that they couldn’t be spared (even if they might be able to save someone’s life). It was mentioned multiple times in Other M about how huge it was that she violated the whole premise of her Metroid II contract and mission. She went on a killing spree, spared a metroid hoping it might lead to good, eventually had that metroid physically save her life, lamented its sacrifice, and was then presented with yet another choice in OM to exterminate a baby metroid (and a whole host of them) and being torn about whether she could do it or not.

You say that she hadn’t progressed or learned anything at all since the start of Other M, and I don’t think that could be further from the truth here. She went from deciding to spare the supposed last metroid, and being sad about its death throughout the whole beginning of the game (a scene everyone seems to poke fun of), to coming around at the very end and realizing that she couldn’t let sentimentality get in the way anymore.…the metroids, including the baby ones, were a threat that needed to all be eliminated. The final boss battle of the mission was none other than a Queen metroid along with some young metroids as well, and she proved her resolve. There was no hesitation about the metroids in this concluding battle, no flashbacks of the Baby (instead it was of the humans who sacrificed their lives for her: Adam, Anthony), and we had Samus finally taking care of business and resolutely eliminating the potential bio-weapon threat. She continued on this path in Fusion, and promptly exterminated every metroid in the hidden lab without even blinking. Maybe you were looking for something else, but if that’s not a meaningful character progression, I don’t know what is.